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Young Writers Society


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Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:52 pm
theyouth says...



Can anyone appreciate the novel as software?

Software for creating, updating, providing to the public via some 'beta-version release' for perpetually upgrading?

Before delving into detail, just wanted to see if anyone had any brain-storming ideas, perspective or thoughts to offer on

1. their methodical approach to writing -

2. editing vs. layering vs. writing vs. transcribing the 'you' to 'document' -

3. abstract perfection/freewheelin' for history - and your interpretation

jb

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Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:07 pm
Rosendorn says...



Already exists, both of them.

Video games: It's called a visual novel, and is hugely popular in Japan.

Perpetual upgrading: serialized stories. Many classic novels were written that way, manga is still released that way, and with the advent of fanfiction, which tends to update one chapter at a time, this also exists in the west on a grand scale. Novels are still being released that way as well.

Plus, the whole point of the Young Writers Society is to upload a draft (or "beta") version of your novel, chapter by chapter, receive critique on it, then update it, one small segment at a time, to build a following.
A writer is a world trapped in a person— Victor Hugo

Ink is blood. Paper is bandages. The wounded press books to their heart to know they're not alone.
  





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Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:40 pm
theyouth says...



thinking something more along the lines of this -

start with a three page novel.
begin layering.
layer it to 3.1 pages.
layer it to 3.3 pages,
so on and so forth,
beginning to end,
professionally publishing your story all the way.

learn how to read.
teach how to write.
show how to edit real-time, on stage -
each page, final copy.
create a new daily precedent for yourself.
overcome new pressures.
force your new attention to detail upon your writing and how it should look, professionally published -
this is a way to deliver.

if interested in specifics - more details here - www.blondyn.com

jb
  





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Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:20 pm
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Aley says...



That sounds like the Snowflake Method for creating a story.
  





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Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:07 pm
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Rosendorn says...



1- Define "professionally publish" because that, to me, means "go through a publisher" and I don't know a single professional publisher who'll do that.

2- Past the "professionally publishing" bit, you're describing what we do on the Young Writers Society exactly. We start off with an idea, sometimes, get it looked at, then people post their work, get it updated, tell people about their progress, and everybody around them learns what writing is supposed to look like.

We learn how to read (as authors) by reviewing works and seeing what we like and don't.

We teach how to write (as authors) by people receiving reviews and editing their work, and providing articles to help others.

We show how to edit real time by either getting together into one giant collaboration document and editing, or people receiving reviews then updating their story's edited version.

We encourage people to create precedents for themselves, overcome new pressure, force your attention to detail about how your writing should look.

Plus, quite a lot of us on here want to be traditionally published, so not being "published" on YWS is actually an advantage.
A writer is a world trapped in a person— Victor Hugo

Ink is blood. Paper is bandages. The wounded press books to their heart to know they're not alone.
  





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Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:54 pm
theyouth says...



Snowflake -

yes,

it is similar to the snowflake method, but only by part.

And true/touché -

a definition as to 'professionally publish' would certainly help; with

'going through a publisher' the traditional route,

but there is nothing necessarily definitive about that.


Imagine if the future were now.

Imagine if the tools were at our ready keyboard.

Imagine professionally web-publishing in a way most relevant to the day/age.



Look,

guys,

I know that I am – to a limited degree – describing some aspects of what is being done on YWS.

And I am aware of what takes place at these forums - it's not the first I've been to;

this is the first forum I've found to be most welcoming to the exchange of ideas.

(was recently just censored / booted out critiquecircledotcom for posts as these; n00bs.)

still too new here to feel quite yet at home,

but I do appreciate YWS and am overall fond/appreciative of both Rosey's/Aley's
participation, even though I do sometimes finish reading their posts feeling a little
scratched up inside.



Yes, I do realize I am asking for it.

Yes, I do recognize that posting my website with some of these posts is not making everyone all too happy -

but I'm also contributing my time - my energy and vision - to this site, and whether you click my link or not, it is the very resource of my learning - of all our own learnings - that remains, and makes YWS a valuable asset in the first place.

I may be advertising my website, but remember, I am representing.

This must be the bond of forum:individual - mutual sponsorship designed for your deliverance.

and yet,
at the same time,
it seems the picture I'm aimed at painting is being either (1) completely missed (2) intentionally avoided, but most likely, (3) masked by some Phantom of the Opera hiding in both our computer screens.

neither of the commentaries have even suggested anything to the extent of 'hey, that part of your idea's not half-bad.'

make no mistake, I'm not expecting, nor in want of any praise -

I want to know where the communication breakdown at.

if e-books are in, with the trees all for it - why not web-publish?

because you want to be traditionally published?

aka – you want money.

money aside, what is the advantage of traditional publishing?

and before anyone provides that list (which will be very boring to read) put your conception of traditional publishing up against your understanding of modern technology, and while Moore's Law describes it's evolution right under our nosies, take a second look at your conception of traditional publishing -

hey where'd it go?

stole by tech?

Rosey tell me something -

by traditional publishing, do you mean that you'd rather write your story, write a query letter, send it to an anonymous agent with some anonymous publishing connections, wait 3 weeks/months to hear back from the miscellaneous agent who responds with the robotic: “While your story has potential, not right for this agency” reply and try, try again?

That's the framework of traditional publishing as I understand it/experienced; it, is, crazy.

There is just way too many people writing stories.

At what point does one ask oneself: Is the competition worth my time?

Be sure, I do not mean to speak out against 'traditional publishing' but why do that to yourself?

Money.

Got it.

But if there's another reason for a desire of traditional publishing, (that's not directly/indirectly related to money) please share, because right now, while anyone spends all their time (money) trying to get published, you could be creating your own representation (and more) on the WWW - (maybe becoming web-literate along the way?)

and what about the concept of 'story tweeting' via PDF?

tweeting a page or so of your story a day.

nobody cared to mention that part of the thread in their response...

and how come?

stay true.

http://www.blondyn.com
  





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Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:19 pm
theyouth says...



The PDF is (1) clean, (2) viewable on virtually every mobile/tablet/cpu device (3) available for monetary/non-monetary distribution on the internet as simply as a book is sold on amazon.com. (maybe more simply)
  





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Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:11 pm
Aley says...



I think you just nailed a huge competitor with your idea, but there are more than just that, self-publishing.

PDFs might make it easy and cheap to get your book out there, but you can self-publish and earn money through Amazon.com, and if you just want to publish as you go, you can publish on fictionpress.com without the hassle of getting payment for it.

I think traditional publishing is still around because if you're published traditionally you get a certain respect from being published credibly, and you get other people's opinions before it's out on the market. They back you up, so to speak, about it being a good book.

When you're self-published, not only do you lose that credibility, but you have to rely on yourself for editing which a publishing house might help you with before they put their name on your book.

Both options are already available, and Fiction Press has a lot better format for any device than Adobe.

The problems with Adobe are as follows.
A) It's been hacked by people and installing it can be dangerous if you don't know where or who to install from.
B) Sometimes the formatting is not good for the device you're on. If you're reading a story and it decides that 1,000 words need to be on one page, and your screen is 5x3, you cannot read that story without a lot of page manipulation.
C) Adobe is not as simple as Amazon.com because Amazon has kindle, and kindle can access the internet and collect that book on every device. If you have a kindle and you're trying to put a PDF of your own on it, you have to find a cord and plug it into your computer. Not MUCH harder, since then you just drag and drop, but the PDF might not read right, (note problem B).
C 1) Amazon also has user-comments which allows other people to talk about the thing you just bought and maybe give you back a little bit of the credibility you lost when you self-published.
C 2) There's a bigger user-base for Amazon than a random PDF on the internet.
C 3) Amazon is not known for supporting viruses, while random downloads on the internet are, so you're more likely to get someone clicking on your story if you have it on Amazon than randomly on the internet.
D) It might not cost anything to read/create an adobe PDF file, but you can't get it out to the public without hosting it online and unless you're on somewhere like Amazon, you need to pay for that service.

In summary, I think you're wrong about the lack of a market for non-traditional publishing. Traditional publishing is publishing for money, but we have other ways to publish too. Not only do we have a lot of sites to self-publish, but those sites provide us with better resources and a wider audience base than anything new could start with. Whenever you put something up on the internet, it's technically published. Using the bases for books and publishing through those protects copyright, gets you to a wider base of readers, and creates an accepted credibility that it's not a scam. It's not beneficial both to your readers and yourself to try to avoid those traditional channels. You can lose trust, and that's all you have once you've lost the credibility of "I can buy this at a bookstore."
  





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Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:21 pm
theyouth says...



the §uper§tring§ite is about creating a concentrated-center of self-expression.

the §uper§tring§ite is about creating a concentrated-center of self-expression.

the §uper§tring§ite is about creating a concentrated-center of self-expression.

I wrote that three times,

because,

well...

taking a new approach now.

goes 'show don't tell'

don't want to argue.

just want to play nice.

sugar and spice -

www.blondyn.com

the §uper§tring§ite is about creating a concentrated-center of self-expression.

the §uper§tring§ite is about creating a concentrated-center of self-expression.

the §uper§tring§ite is about creating a concentrated-center of self-expression.
  





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Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:09 pm
birk says...



Youth, your pitch is not landing.

Please take this into consideration as to whether or not you will continue to try finding an audience or target group within YWS.
"I never saved anything for the swim back."


Do not mistake coincidence for fate. - Mr Eko

they're selling razor blades and mirrors in the street
  





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Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:58 pm
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Rosendorn says...



Okay, I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding here.

We are trying to help you.

All these points and questions and things we're raising? That is to help you get a better concept, to promote it better, to generally make it actually functioning. These are things I ask of any website at all: I ask what it can do for me that hasn't already been done.

You have already shown us the website. We have looked at the website. We have gone "this isn't enough to get me to sign on", and we are now asking you questions so you can tell us why we should sign on.

The whole "build it and they will come" attitude only works if you're filling an empty need in the market (which does, by the way, exist, even in such an overcrowded market). I'm asking you what need you're filling. You've consistently dodged the question, even when multiple people have brought up how your need is not specific enough.

I'm in marketing. I have a degree in it. These are questions I ask anyone, that I run through with every product. And before you go say I'm part of the problem with traditional publishing and I'm only in it for the money— stop. You yourself are self promoting here, meaning you are marketing yourself. You are suggesting artists all become self promoters, meaning you are suggesting artists all take up marketing. So, really, you're just asking everybody to hold my job. Which is fine. Everybody kinda needs to in this society.

We are asking you how people will market themselves with this, what sort of resources they'll need to sink into it to keep it up (domain names, server hosting, ect)— and you've not told us anything. You've only gone "well here's the site take a look it speaks for itself." It doesn't. If the site spoke for itself, we wouldn't be asking you these questions.

You're stubbornly insisting that you're meeting a need that doesn't have anything currently meeting it. Okay. What is it, in specifics, that makes this different? Saying your goal is presence... everybody single website's goal where you can post your own stuff is "give a person a web presence." You need something else. We're trying to ask you what else, giving you the opportunity to sell us, and you're not taking that opportunity.

You've shown us your website. You've told us your pitch. It's obviously not good enough, because we're not biting. We keep asking you questions about this, to get more information in what the point is, and you're going back to the old pitch which we've already said isn't good enough.

These aren't attacks. These are questions. We are legitimately trying to find out what's so awesome about your product, and you're not telling us.

That's no fault of ours. That's a fault of yours.
A writer is a world trapped in a person— Victor Hugo

Ink is blood. Paper is bandages. The wounded press books to their heart to know they're not alone.
  





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Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:02 pm
theyouth says...



Birkhoff wrote:Youth, your pitch is not landing.

Please take this into consideration as to whether or not you will continue to try finding an audience or target group within YWS.


So it seems; clearly, I'm not all too good with these forums; even so, feel this obligation to interact -

Is 'nothing' about the pitch 'landing'?

Even one thing?

One reason this is hard is because there is no way to gauge whether everyone is opposed or if there actually is one shy and slightly intrigued individual, wanting to see how the idea is to play out...

In any case, it is clear I need to change my angle...

Perhaps I have allowed it to seem that I am trying to convince one and all to sign onto something, when in reality - www.blondyn.com - this publishing studio is something I am doing - a website based on a template for making a website of your own - for layering your own design across and in such a way that places the writer at the focal center of various media channels of self-expression.

Is the concept too far out?

I can understand it may not be for everyone, or anyone at this rate.

If there was one thing about it that made you wonder, would you let me know?
  





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Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:26 am
Aley says...



The thing that made me wonder was how is this a publishing studio?

I still don't understand your basic pitch, that's why it's not landing. You say it's a website based off a template, but you're not giving us the template, and you're not giving us the how.

Okay, you're saying this is for
layering your own design across and in such a way that places the writer at the focal center of various media channels of self-expression.


Let's go over the basic 5 W [+1H] questions.

First, I'll deal with the Me to You interactions.
How do we make our own website from this?
According to your website, this is just a website. There is nothing about me making my own, there's barely any text.

Who is hosting the website?
According to your URL, you are, but I don't have money to throw at owning my own URL. Are you expecting me to?

What do they require in return?
When do I get a template to look at in order to start planning my own website?
If it's the template you used, why would I want to? The images and design of the website aren't that good.

Why would I want to do this when I have Twitter, Tumblr, Fiction Press, WattPad, WordPress, Facebook, Amazon, and all these other well known ways to advertise myself that I'm already a part of?
These even connect to each other through sharing links.

Where does this show up on the internet aside from when you link it to us or we search it?
People won't know to google this until they see it, so there's no advertising for this aside from, well, invading websites like YWS and talking about it.

Now let's move to the template design you based this off of.
Why did you use this template when it has no links between pages aside form on the homepage?
What is the point of just having the same template between a bunch of different websites?
Where do you change the design to something more suited to you?
Who did you get this template from?
When do you expect to have this site actually operational?
How do you think people should be moving around the pages?

These questions sort of point out the first point flaw, "layering your own design across" the website means using this layout, and this layout is not one I would want to use. It is not up to my standards for a web page, which means it's not up to a lot of people's standards since standards are made by expectations, as poetry and grammar expectations/standards would teach us.

The focal center is a weird term. Focal center means, basically, the center, but also the focal point. A focal point should not be in the center of the page. That's bad composition. Why is that bad composition? It's bad composition because it draws the eye to the center of the page, and then drops you there in the middle leaving you to wander away. If you put the focal point off center, it gives the viewer more time to examine the painting and makes the image appear less flat. At the center, you can't really do much relief with it, so you can't get much depth. Clearly there are times when this is not the case, but thousands of famous painters use this as a rule, and even expand on it that a picture should have 3 major parts, forming a triangle of support within the picture.

So, you can't have a triangle with all it's points in the center. Focal Center doesn't really make sense.

"of various media channels of self-expression" are?
Who are they? DeviantArt? Facebook? MySpace?
Where are they? On the internet? Are you talking about on the TV? In real life?
Why are we trying to be their 'focal center' when they are already in center stage? If people already know to go to dA when looking for artist, and WattPad when looking for writers, why try to deviate from that?
What do we do to make ourselves the 'focal center'? Creating a website won't do it.
When will it begin to work [whatever it is that we do]?
How do you think that this will actually function? Are you going to go on those websites and try to steal their business? Are you going to distract them from actually doing what they want to do somehow and successfully steal their clientele? How can you do that when this isn't something that's working yet?

I suppose my point is that when you ask us to tell you what made us wonder, you're asking the wrong questions. You should be searching within yourself, and really considering what we say because if we've poked a tendon and it hurts, maybe it's something you should have had the doctor check out sooner.

To speak less metaphorically, you need to be able to answer these before you can ask someone else to be interested in your idea. Just like planning a story, you need more background information than what you give to the public so when someone comes up to you and asks what the buttons do on the council, you can tell them what 100% of them do, even if 50% of them don't get used in the book, only 10% get named, and only 1% actually do anything we'd recognize.

So I ask you, who are you?
what makes this layout so great?
where are the links between pages?
when can we actually see this up and running properly?
why do you think we should be interested?
how is this a publishing studio?
because right now, it looks like a website in the makings that's just going to be a one and done deal; a dead end to the internet super-highway, as your people might have called it.
  





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Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:19 pm
theyouth says...



Rosey Unicorn wrote:What is it, in specifics, that makes this different?


§uper§tring§ite -

1. a website;

2. one strand of a 'WWW Ecosystem' - a 'web' of 'sites' - designed for independently functioning, networking and marketing others within the same web-work;

as a 'Step 1' to answering some of these questions, does the above definition somewhat clarify the picture?
  





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Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:07 pm
theyouth says...



It just occurred to me that perhaps this is less about starting something new than it is branding a new style of author for the '21st Century'.
  








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