Young Writers Society

This is a serious question that I've been asking myself these past few hours, after being showered in some pretty unpleasant stuff.

You see, I posted something on some other site. It wasn't meant to be a piece of literature, so I gave it little effort, but I've grown so used to using my writing style that I use it both for normal everyday speech and for most other forms of communication.

Unfortunately, that was a mistake. I had written a few paragraphs about how I felt on a certain issue, since I'm stressed as hell and just need to let off some steam (astronomy exam tomorrow, and I'm very afraid of failing it). Well, that was also a mistake. I was showered with very unpleasant posts right then and there.

In short, I was told I was pretentious, that my work is shitty (something I don't deny, but they could have been more specific), and a variety of other belittling, condescending trash from much older people, who weren't even writers to begin with. Don't confuse this with valid criticism (you should avoid these expressions, use these instead, messy sentence structure, etc.), because this was nothing like that.

I defended my work at first, trying to explain that it is simply a habit by now, and that yes, perhaps I did not yet become a master of the art, but that it is no reason to shred me to pieces. After this, they switched gears completely. They claimed that they were trying to help, whatever that means, still offering very little in the way of critique. I flipped out on them at that point, and rightfully so. Bloody band of insecure hypocrites is what I call them.

So how do you deal with these sorts? I know it might be easy for most, but writing is one of the few things I don't absolutely suck at, so last night really made me reconsider if I should continue doing what I do well.

Sorry for this. If this somehow offends someone, I probably don't care, but it still isn't my intention. I need to find a way to deflect this stuff in the future, and avoid bouts of insecurity like the one I'm going through now.

Edit: Maybe I'm the issue here, I accept that. So I add that to the question: were they right to do what they did? Because I don't even know what's acceptable and what isn't anymore. It seems to change so rapidly and from person to person.

Learning to deal with criticism is an important skill, not just for your development as a writer, but also for life in general. You will inevitably be criticized by teachers, bosses, friends, and family.

The first instinct of people is to defend their writing; because the criticism hurts their ego. The problem with that is that the pride that protects your ego can turn away perfectly sound advice; and then you don't improve.

I think a better alternative is to ask questions. If someone tells me that my character is acting unrealistically, I would ask the critic what a more realistic reaction would be? If my descriptions are bland; then I would ask the critic if they had advice on how to spice them up? By asking questions, you can help turn a destructive critique into a constructive experience.

Something to keep in mind is that your ego is a perfectly valid target for critics, provided it interferes with your writing. If you flip out on critics instead of listening to them, then they're probably right to target that aspect. If you can't handle people criticizing your work, then go to your mother.

Writing takes hard work and dedication. You have to devote yourself to your craft. Practice plotting and character writing with storybooks, review other works submitted by your fellow authors. Then, write your own story; revise it three times before you hit submit. Three revisions do a lot to weed out the bad writing.

When critics see that effort put into a piece of work, they will respect that far more than a first draft that wasn't read out-loud (probably because the author couldn't bear to read their own work.)

I understand this, and accept criticism as much as anyone else. But this wasn't criticism. I wasn't told exactly what was wrong with what I wrote, rather I was merely told that it's horrible in one sentence.

Criticism is something I actively seek out whenever I complete a piece (I more often scrap entire stories and start anew, but sometimes I do complete something). What I can't deal with, however, are insults. Especially when they go so far as to insult you as not only a writer, but as an individual in general.

Believe me when I say that I love critics to death. I consider every bit of negative criticism they offer, because they, as the reader, are ultimately correct. Their opinion matters more than mine, because I'll obviously be biased towards it. I always take criticism into consideration and adapt my new work to address the issues. But this? How's anyone supposed to learn from this?

How does one put it past them? I wish it was as simple as telling them off, but what if they are right? Might as well not write at all if their insults are valid. By insults, I mean actual insults, not some hurt-my-feelings pseudo-insults. So how does one shrug it off and continue?

I'm not sure if I was unclear in the original post. It's likely my mistake. My apologies.

Edit: I should mention that the worst offender was, in this case, the word "pretentious." I wish I understood why they think that. Apparently, I don't write like a normal human being? Well, that should be obvious. I've been writing for three years, so clearly it has had an effect on my form of expression.

If the reviewer says your work is lousy and you should never write again, by all means ignore that reviewer! If they say is horrible, just ask why they think so. For the moment, lock up your ego as you lock up your inner editor when drafting. Just ask. It it's something about your composition, then pay attention. Because your work must have been a controversial topic, if they criticize your stance instead, just ignore it. Constructive criticism is different from criticizing your beliefs.

You're right. I'd like to believe that I have learned to accept criticism, and I do believe I have, for the most part, but I sometimes fail to keep my cool in the face of the blatantly destructive form. My ego is still very strong, despite my attempts to defeat it completely.

I think I tried to ask why they believed it was bad. I believe they said it was because I appeared pretentious with my sentence structure and use of somewhat complex words. Then again, I was writing about a complex psychological question, so I didn't have much of a choice. I think they just got a bad impression from me. I tried explaining that I am absolutely against spewing out big words without care, but there was no point in justifying anything I said.

Well, I suppose there's not much I can do. I don't blame them for anything. Instead, I should focus on simplifying my work when I write it for people who may not be familiar with some of the words I use. That's a useful skill to have in any case. So perhaps their insults did lead to something good after all.

I sincerely thank you for helping me discover this goal.

You're welcome! Everybody always quakes in front of criticism for their work <3

I think this is a pretty important topic, because as much as we hate it, when you put your writing up for comment/critique sometimes you'll get more than you bargained for. I think as you've somewhat said, part of being a good writer, is being open to getting criticism - this is what makes writing better. However there is certainly a "right" and a "wrong" way to give and respond to criticism as well.

Your last question on your post was "were they right to do what they did" and I would say it kind of depends on the context. I would say generally it's pretty cruel to just call writing "sh*tty" without being willing to clarify what in the world they mean by that. It sounds like there really wasn't something specific they were trying to criticize but that maybe they were looking to pick a fight. Criticism that is that blunt and broad is not very often effective, because as Griffin said - the writer just feels attacked and might try to revert to defending rather than actually taking that criticism in. So in short, I think people have a right to tell others that they didn't like the piece, or they didn't think it was good (if you're asking for criticism or posting somewhere to get criticism) but if they want to help the writer they ought to try to be specific on what they didn't like, and also try not to just be a jerk.

On the other-hand I'm still not sure what response is appropriate in that sort of situation. I really struggle with trying to figure out how to clarify or explain my work, without coming off as discounting what a reviewer said or sounding defensive. I think it's important to remember that writing and reading are all about interpretation - and although I may have wanted people to think all the uncapitalized letters in my poem showed some vital significance, it's also completely valid for others to read that as sloppy. Writing is about interpretation, and even if you think their interpretation is odd, ill-informed, or cruel - the fact that they have came away with that interpretation at the very least means that there is something you can learn from in it (not necessarily change, but to keep in mind). With that, approaching responses to really negative interpretations - it's really important to remember that what you meant for the work is also just interpretation. [I should also note, that I'm speaking more about plot, characterization, stylistic choices which are kind of relative, where as there are some things like spelling that aren't exactly open to interpretation]. I hope this was somewhat helpful - but yeah, like the other commenters said - one person's opinion is never a reason to give up what you love or even enough to change everything about your writing. You are the author and have a right to take ownership over your work, although hopefully with more kindness than the person who initially commented so negatively.

Hey @LeutnantSchweinehund!

I'm really sorry that happened to you. That absolutely sucks.

Genuinely. I don't have much more wisdom than that. I'm really bad at rolling with the punches. I get close to tears whenever someone gives out to me. I honestly really hate it - I've cried in the corridor alone in work more times than I can remember when I'm on call and some nurse has shouted down the phone at me, telling me I'm bad at my job because I haven't done something for her.

It's especially bad in those situations - like me, at six am in hour 23 of my 24 hour shift, or for you, stressed out for your exam (and I bet you'll do swell! <3)

The fact is, that there is a huge difference between critiquing a work, and tearing somebody down.

On YWS, I think it's something that reviewers take a while to grasp. Most people are too scared to say *anything* bad about a work at first. And some people end up going completely the other extreme. "This is really bad. You shouldn't have written this." And such statements are not helpful criticism. On YWS, we encourage helpful criticism. Obviously on this other site, not so much.

Do I have advice for you on it? Firstly, don't take it to heart. Most self-aware writers know where their works' weaknesses lie, and are open to hear opinions on other things. So if you are self-aware (and you seem to be!), whenever you read valid criticism you'll read it and say "Yeah, that's valid." Or maybe you'll disagree with it, but you see where they're coming from. Or it'll sting, and you'll come back in a few days and say, "yeah, you're right."

Not so with insults. There is nothing to be gained from rereading insults. And if someone is swearing at you, honestly, that's the first sign that their opinion isn't worth it.

Here's a few mantras for you about it:

No one can assume you're a bad writer because of one piece of your writing that they've read.

No one can even assume that one piece of writing is altogether bad, all they can say is their own opinion ie. "I didn't like it".

Only professional critics should speak in absolutes. Everybody else should only state their opinion.

People who need back up from other reviewers aren't reviewers, they're a bully ganging up on a writer.

At the end of the day, if writing is something you enjoy, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. And you know that there'll be plenty of people who'll love your writing, just not in that time and place.

So just close the tab, take a few deep breaths, let your heart rate settle, and remember that you're writing because *you* love it.

And remember, YWS is always here for building up, not breaking down

Good luck in your exam tomorrow, I'm sure it'll go splendidly for you <3

I appreciate both your responses. Very reassuring. I do attempt to take criticism, like I said, and I almost always do consider it with an open mind. However, this truly was nothing more than a blatant drive-by shooting. Maybe they had a bad day behind them, maybe not. Either way, what is done is done, and there is no point thinking about it anymore.

About reviews here... I try to point out the negatives in other people's work as best I can. Of course, I'm aware that some people might not take it too well, but I certainly hope to God that I'm not doing the same thing as those guys from yesterday. I don't think I am, but it's possible! Hopefully not though.

The exam? Eh. I need 40% to pass, and this is way above my academic level. Been pumping knowledge into my brain for a bit now. The zenith is right above us, the nadir is right below us, horizon is perpendicular to both, etc.. I sure hope I can get 40%. I mean, I should be able to, but what do I know?

I ask questions when my feelings get hurt. My next move is based on the response, or lack thereof...

- If I don't get any response, I assume that they don't care and, as such, I shouldn't care about what they say.

- If I can't get a cogent response, I say to myself, "Well, they're clearly full of [redacted]", rant to my friends about the idiot who wanted to bring me down with his bullying but never had a good reason when confronted with questions, and then move on with my life.

- If they give me a reasonable response that I disagree with, I say to myself, "Ah, but writing is an art and I am an artist. They disagree with my methods, but art is all about making beauty from mistakes. I will file away their response and think about it, but this change is not for me. Still, this person offers a new perspective, is thoughtful, and willing to look through what I have written and show me his insights, and I super respect that and I will thank them profusely for their input because it has made me think and expanded my perceptions."

- If they give me a reasonable response that I agree with, I consider how I can change things around and thank them profusely for showing me a better way of expressing myself.

So. That's what I do.

I consider every bit of negative criticism they offer, because they, as the reader, are ultimately correct. Their opinion matters more than mine, because I'll obviously be biased towards it.

I... don't think this is true? I think my view is ultimately correct and that if I try to bend to every criticism, it's a never-ending cycle of appeasement. This is not to say that I don't listen to reviews -- I do -- but I don't follow every suggested edit all the time.

Anyway. It sounds like you wrote something that wasn't really all that great, and you knew it wasn't that great, and they knew it wasn't that great, and the fact that they knew it wasn't that great hurts because you thought that maybe you could pull it off and be one of those cool writers who write something offhand that is praised for being so deep, even though it was something that you literally wrote on a whim as a first draft. Been there, done that... it kind of sucks. My advice for you in this particular case is lick your wounds and then keep writing. One day, if you continue to practice, you'll get to the point where you'll be consistently writing quality things most of the time. You just haven't gotten there yet. But that's okay.

Solid methods. I'd say that I lack that third part, however. If a criticism is valid, I will always take it into consideration and nearly always find a way to incorporate it into my work, unless it somehow very fundamentally wounds its message or structure. That sort of relates to my view of the reader being correct.

I swear that it wasn't my intention to appear deep or sophisticated. I utterly despise it when people attempt to do that, and I'd cower in shame if I did it as well. The problem is that what I had written wasn't even really a literary piece, as I said. It was more of a psychological conclusion I made from some self-reflection on a certain topic, so I expected them not to review my style of writing, but instead focus on the message itself. That's one of the things that screw my mind up when I think back on that experience.

I've been writing fairly consistently for a good three years now. I'd say I have improved, going from nothing to where I am now (among the higher end of writers of our engineering faculty), but I'm afraid I may have reached my ceiling. That, or I'm genuinely regressing.

You have some lovely responses here, but I thought I'd give you some advice based on how I personally deal with difficult people and situations.

First of all, what I always say is you gotta get yourself some writer's armour. This will protect you from the majority of the impact- and I'd say what I use for writer's armour is a healthy dose of disconnect. Sometimes the best way to do this Is by making sure you give a bit of time between you finishing your work, and you posting your work. I find that when I post my work right after I finish writing it, I tend to still be in a state of "OMG I LOVE this!!" and am very vulnerable to harsh words about my work- whether the intent is to help or not. Leaving a bit of space between writing your work and posting your work can dampen your initial emotions and allow you to have a clearer head.

The other thing that helps me is sympathising with the reviewer. Who knows what kind of day THEY'RE having and what kind of critiques they've got in their life that have led them to do this? For all we know their best friend died and they're taking their frustration out on our work! This helps me because it reminds me that we're all human and make mistakes, and it allows me to connect and forgive the reviewer relatively quickly. So remember: they could be having a really sucky day, and so try not to take that stuff personally, because even though it is a very personal thing, chances are it has nothing to do with you or your work at all, and everything to do with the other person and their life's experiences.

Another thing that helps me is to step away from the situation. You don't have to reply to that person now, or ever, if you don't want to and I'd highly suggest putting the comment aside and doing something else for awhile before you reply. By doing this, you give yourself time to chill. When you give yourself time to chill you generally then don't come across so defensive when replying and can avoid starting an argument. When you react defensively often times a shot of your own might get fired at the other person and then it starts a gross circle of comments between the two of you and it just makes it even more less-fun for the both of you.

I might think of something more but for nowwww, I hope that was helpful <3

Well,

When you do get into beef, or when you mess up, just stand up and get it off your shoulders. Think that this is experience is making you a better person. My personal philosophy about growth is that you're always going forward. Maybe a little sideways, but never backwards. That means you're always growing and improving. Every beef you get into just makes you even better than you are right now, and brings you even farther than ever before.

For example, due to this beef you had online on another site, you went to this one and asked around for advice. Now everyone's come in and opened themselves up to you. You're learning a lot from them and it's making you better than you ever were.

tl;dr: I mean, they're plebs anyway, so don't let their pettiness get to you kekekek

But to be fair, prevention is the cure as well. Be careful with your words. As a writer, you have to consider the audience you're writing for as well. If you're gonna write for people who ain't familiar of you online, then adjust accordingly. Sometimes clarity and audience connection should be favored over eloquence or adherence to personal preference.

But on the flipside, if you're writing on a non-writing website that isn't like YWS, then you'll naturally be flamed, and you won't be heard out. So what's the point of writing there? Try and get yourself a more understanding audience, like group of friends or some teachers or any of the friendly guys and gals in this website (hue). They're surely listen to you rant and rave about stuff since you're such a good guy in the inside (huehue). That way, you can release steam and not get flamed for being yourself.

Hope I said something that helps.

@Holysocks

My God, you are so right. No, honestly, you explained it better than I ever could, especially with the part about leaving space between writing and posting your work. That is so true. Unfortunately, I tend to get so excited about actually finishing something (for every story I post, I scrap ten, so it takes about two months to get anything done) that I cannot help pushing it out as soon as possible. I will definitely look into preventing that. Should help me with reviewing first drafts as well.

Also correct about the other party. I think I stated the same thing somewhere in one of my replies, not sure. Indeed, I try to empathize, and it does humanize them. However, sometimes I wonder if I empathize only because I've been taught that it's the correct thing to do in certain situations... Huh. Interesting thought.

@outvaders

Kekistan is with me, and I am grateful. Praised be Pepe, our lord and savior who roams the skies above. Ave Kek.

You're also right. I need to focus more on catering to the audience, and in doing so expand my range of styles. That's beneficial not only for the reader, but for me in the long run. If I do indeed make it into a PhD program in whatever field I'll choose in a few years, it'll be a great asset.

Once again, Ave Kek.