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Which book next?



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Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:05 pm
TheSunChildren says...



Hello everyone!
There may be a few of you who've seen that recently i've managed to complete my first novel; The Sun Children V - The Princess' Crown. Whilst i am eager to continue the story, i am starting to think about another format of when i shall write the books. Naturally you'd say that the order should be:

The Sun Children V - The Princess' Crown (part 1)
-The Prince's Ring (part 2)
-The Empress' Pendant (part 3)
-The Lord's Bracer (part 4)
-The Emperor's Sword (part 5)

However, what we must not forget is that this is The Sun Children "V", meaning there is another 4 books to come before. What i have managed to do, is to make each of the prequel TSC books relate to TSCV, but here's what makes it hard:
TSCIII gives a better understanding to TSCV Part One
TSCII gives a better understanding to TSCV Part Two
TSCIV gives a better understanding to TSCV Part Three
TSCI gives a better understanding to TSCV part Four

So this makes the order as follows:
TSCV P1
TSCIII
TSCV P2
TSCII
TSCV P3
TSCIV
TSCV P4
TSCI
TSCV P5

The problem that i face by doing this however, is that it will take at least 9 years to get to the end of TSCV (presuming i write a novel a year) And whilst this gives me time to go away from TSCV and rethink a lot of what is going to happen so it isnt as rushed, i fear that it will take too long to finish the story.

So what i am asking advice on, is what should i write next? The Sun Children V Part 2 or The Sun Children III?

Thanks :D
Not many remember how life there began, in the lands amidst surrounding walls of stone and pools of deep darkness, but whilst they forget the secrets of the past, they begin to riddle the future with their growing lust for knowledge, greatness and power.
  





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Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:37 pm
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Rosendorn says...



Cut the prequels. And maybe some parts of the series itself. I am absolutely dead serious.

What makes it readers have to know this stuff? The sake of epicness? The sake of exposition? The sake of perfect clarity and understanding?

None of those are valid reasons to drag a story out. Chances are, you don't need to explain every single little thing happening in the world. Stories dragged out that long, to that scale, are often criticized very heavily for being bloated, unfocused, and boring.

I know you've crammed in a ton of worldbuilding into this and want to show all of it. Don't. Plain old don't. Worldbuilding is for the writer, not for the reader. The reader wants a story, not an exposition session. They don't really care if things are crystal clear, perfectly explained, full thousand years of history for the world that details the start of conflict since the dawn of said conflict along with how every single social class works plus magic across three continents.

They want characters. They want forward progression. They want to know how the conflict relates to the characters in question. Now you can have some grand scale conflicts, but even some of the better written conflicts get cries of the story being too drawn out. This criticism is hitting George R. R. Martin rather hard right now.

Also, publishing houses really don't like first time publishers with multi-part books. They want the first book to be self contained, with the possibility of more books if all goes well. But if the first book tanks, no big deal.

To bring up George R. R. Martin again, he had ten years in publishing and ten years in tv before he embarked on A Song of Ice and Fire. His career was actually temporarily killed by a bad book he wrote in the 80s (why he switched to tv). Tolkien, similarly, had a long list of successful publications behind him before publishing Lord of the Rings.

I am not telling you this to say The Sun Children will never get published. I'm saying it's extremely unlikely to get a very long work published as a first time author.

If you want to get published and want to see The Sun Children published, write other stories. Begin to get established in the publishing world, and learn what sells. Get a certain amount of notoriety so you aren't a gamble. You will also learn what's good to sell.

My personal opinion is to streamline the series to its absolute barebones (if you want to include something because you think readers have to know it, don't include it at all) and write the story from the start of the interest points to the resolution of that conflict. Forget prequels, forget forcing an epic tone by cramming in every single little thing. Write a story around a few characters and how the conflict relates to those characters. Draw out the tension for what's going on as long as possible by not telling us the cause, simply the action that must result from it. Monitor how many side plots and keep them to a minimum. Keep it immediately relevant to the MCs. Give as little information as humanly possible.

I would also take a break from an epic world. Make something simpler, make something different, make something that will start to establish yourself. Taking a break lets you think about other things, and broaden your skills as a writer. Experience is what'll get epics published. A broad base of writing is also what will get you to not write a highly cliched series.

Work on your own skills, and your own reputation, before attempting a magnum opus. Awesome worldbuilding does not a good book make. An interesting story is what makes a good book.
A writer is a world trapped in a person— Victor Hugo

Ink is blood. Paper is bandages. The wounded press books to their heart to know they're not alone.
  





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Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:54 am
TheSunChildren says...



Hello :)

Thanks for your reply, its much appreciated!

Firstly i kind of decided today im not going to do the prequels first. Yes they help the reader understand more of the secrets behind TSCV, but they are their own stories too with their own characters and are equally full in terms of plot and such. I can understand what youre saying, though. I do a lot of world-building, but 90% of it isnt in the book, only the bits that relate directly to the story and the people in it. TSCV is a large story, but (in my opinion) it doesnt drag out or anything. Each book has its own storyline and compacted plot which slowly progresses towards the big picture at the end.

George RR Martin is a fantastic writer, dont get me wrong, but GoT does drag on a lot. The first book had such a tight plot, and those after seem to be the same storyline spread out over vast lengths. I also understand Tolkien's journey leading up to LOTR, and i whilst i would like to get a smaller, stand-alone book published first, i can't think of one. My entire writing experience has been this series, so it'd take me a long time, very long time actually to come up with something new.

Im actually putting off actual publishing for a while and will likely focus more on ebook publishing as it's much less hassle, cheaper and i have more control over it (from what ive read). If i go through with that, and in the unlikely chance i make a sum of money from it (although thats definitely not what drives me) then i might put that towards approaching an agent etc. and that whole process. TSCV part 1 has taken four years to complete and has been stripped down by 60,000 words already so ive thrown out all that i dont need and made the story and characters more condensed (i hope) but im still asking around for 'beta-readers' at the moment.

So all in all, the decision is, not to do the prequels first, or even at all? we'll see where it takes me :) I do really appreciate the time you've given to reply though, it means a lot to me that you'd do that :) And youve helped me formalise my decision at least.
(also excuse my bad grammar in this, im in a hurry so im having to rattle through this quite quick). But thanks again, so much :D i suppose this thread can be locked or whatever now because i don't really need anything else answering. I'll let a few people read the finished thing and ask what they think, if it needs revising then i shall gladly do so, all i want is to make it enjoyable for the reader, so we'll see :)

Thanks again,
TSC :D
Not many remember how life there began, in the lands amidst surrounding walls of stone and pools of deep darkness, but whilst they forget the secrets of the past, they begin to riddle the future with their growing lust for knowledge, greatness and power.
  





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Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:00 am
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Rosendorn says...



Thread locking doesn't happen when a question has been answered (you'll notice the large amount of unlocked threads in Resources), and your reply has raised new points.

Unfortunately, the tightened story, how much you have cut, and even your own opinion doesn't matter. Agents will hear "It's a nine book series" and go "can you prove this will sell? Can't you cut this down? Nine book series are just too long." And, chances are, they will be right. Especially since you are a new author.

You admit GRRM has a valid critique against him, but you are not in a place to critique your own writing. How do you plan to avoid these detriments? Specific examples. Because in volume, you appear to be failing. In this respect, the HBO series is better: it's more streamlined. It has cut lots of the story, but it's still the gist of the story and is far more palatable. This is what I mean when I say you likely don't need the plot to be so long. Readers do not need every detail. Let your story run on assumptions.

Agents and editors could also demand these major cuts. The amount of editing that goes into a story before you send it off to agents is nothing compared to the amount of editing that goes into a story after. It is in the name of making the book better. If you cannot take such drastic suggestions on your writing, then I would suggest not publishing traditionally.

As for your comment that you cannot think in single books— this will be your detriment. People enjoy reading single books, and even trilogies can be hard pressed to sell. Anomalies exist, but they are just that. Anomalies. Single books allow you to explore things in smaller packages, and help establish you as a writer. They're quick, require no waiting, and have low commitment. I understand where you're coming from, but it is a skill writers need to learn. The more variety they have within their storytelling, the better a writer they are.

Which leads me to your comment about how long it would take you to come up with a new story. This proves my point you need to branch out. Your mind has lost the flexibility required in order to jump between stories. You have become so entrenched in one epic work that there is nothing left, and this means you will likely only have one series to your name. Maybe even one book. A writer's greatest skill is their flexibility to adapt, to show what they can do, to reach many audiences.

Another note: if you self publish the novels, then do not expect them to become published through traditional means. This article goes into more detail about self publishing.

Again, all of this is not meant to scare you. It is meant to inform you of how the publishing business works. Most writing publishers receive is good. They go for the most low risk options. A five book series that is fully integrated (ie- no stand alone first book), from a new author, is extremely high risk. Publishing is a business, after all, and risks must be managed. You'll likely be passed up for somebody who's less risk. Somebody who has a standalone book.

That's business. And while you can beat business once you get established, unestablished it's best to follow regular conventions. Some books are unsellable. That's a reality. Books, after all, need to be sold for everyone to make money. However, before they can be sold, they must be printed. Printing costs money. This means the publisher takes a loss on your work before they reap any gain. They want to make sure they get a gain.
A writer is a world trapped in a person— Victor Hugo

Ink is blood. Paper is bandages. The wounded press books to their heart to know they're not alone.
  








It had a perfectly round door like a porthole, painted green, with a shiny yellow brass knob in the exact middle. The door opened on to a tube-shaped hall like a tunnel: a very comfortable tunnel without smoke, with panelled walls, and floors tiled and carpeted, provided with polished chairs, and lots and lots of pegs for hats and coats—the hobbit was fond of visitors. The tunnel wound on and on, going fairly but not quite straight into the side of the hill —The Hill, as all the people for many miles round called it—and many little round doors opened out of it, first on one side and then on another.
— JRR Tolkien