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Young Writers Society


so you want to be a writer?



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Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:10 pm
Angels-Symphony says...



This is kind of reminding me of sports.

If you're not good immediately at sports, don't try.

You'll never automatically be good at something. Well, maybe breathing.
But if you want to be good, you still have to work at it.

However, I do think that they're talking about the story, not the actually writing.
If the story doesn't come out of you, if it doesn't flow, then maybe it's not the story
you're supposed to write. It doesn't mean "don't write, ever."

Everyone has a story to write, but sometimes you just have to wait for the right one
to come across you.

-Shina
You cannot dream yourself into a character; you must hammer and forge yourself into one.

The writer, when he is also an artist, is someone who admits what others don't dare reveal.
  





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Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:25 pm
Maddyc says...



It's an interesting one. I think he was just trying to provoke self-loving writers, but in the doing so he is also giving bad advice to anyone who really wants to write. I don't think the poem should be taken as advice, just see it as a reflection of this guy's outlook on the world. It's really written so he can see people's reactions and cause controvosy.
And if he really believes it all then...he should grow a bit of compassion. People have dreams and goals and it gives purpose to their lives to achieve them.
  





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Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:05 am
Krupp says...



Bukowski is the man. That's all I'm gonna say hahahaha.

But in all honesty, I think he meant that you shouldn't write unless you absolutely feel the writing leaping out of your head at the time. If you know the words without having to sit and think about them a ton, I think that's when he thinks you should write. Otherwise don't bother, because it would be a waste of time..

It's not bad advice, really. I know i've wasted time saying, "i'm gonna write a poem" and then I wasn't able to come up with jack.
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Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:30 pm
errtu2 says...



I do believe that the advice given in the poem is some of the best I have ever heard for a young writer. We don't need bull, we don't need abundant self love, we need people who have an instinct for writing. I never says don't edit, it only says, don't search for words. Its a homage to pure writing, raw writing. If you don't understand the poem hang up your pen until you do.

I think the reactions to this poem really shows some of the biggest problems with this website. Most of you are far to sensitive to hop into the crucible and really burn away. To strip bare, and leap into the Baltic.

My advice is to stop writing for a while, let the ideas and energy build up, and then let it come pouring out.

Chin Up.

Mod Edit: This is an all-ages website, and cursing is not permissible outside of literary works.
Those who control their passions do so because their passions are weak enough to be controlled.
- William Blake
Lord, grant me chastity and continence... but not yet.
St. Augustine
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Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:45 pm
Merlin34 says...



^That makes more sense, but very few writers are actually like that. Sometimes I can sit down and pour out page after page, but other times, I can barely type a single word.

Although...
We don't need bull, we don't need abundant self love, we need people who have an instinct for writing. I never says don't edit, it only says, don't search for words

Would you mind clarifying on that?
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Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:24 pm
Master_Yoda says...



errtu2 wrote:I do believe that the advice given in the poem is some of the best I have ever heard for a young writer. We don't need bull, we don't need abundant self love, we need people who have an instinct for writing. I never says don't edit, it only says, don't search for words. Its a homage to pure writing, raw writing. If you don't understand the poem hang up your pen until you do.

We don't need BS, but the advice we should follow should be helpful advice. If you really want to be told that your writing sucks, go take a look at Scalzi's article about teenage writing. This guy doesn't pamper you. He doesn't give the same useless advice that Bukowski does either.

Please, this dude pretty much says, "Don't write". What kind of advice is that? A writer who perseveres will always be the one who ends up more impressive. It took JRR Tolkien twelve years to write Lord of the Rings. He clearly didn't write Bukowski style, and he emerged with something far better than Bukowski could have dreamed of producing. :)

Have a great one!
#TNT

The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
-- Robert Frost

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Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:36 pm
Explosive_Pen says...



Yoda, how dare you subject to me that long and rather boring article? My eyes hurt now and it's all your fault. >.<

But really. Bukowski's saying that if you have to stare at a blank Word document for several hours before finally setting a fingertip on the keyboard, then you're not worth poop. Guys ~ Writing is HARD WORK (caps are necessary <.< ). No one said it was going to be easy, and come one, did you really expect it to be? I've been writing since I was eight - that's six years - and I still pretty much suck. Not nearly as much as I used to, but still. Find me in another six years. We'll see how much I pwn then.

The thing is, all of you are so young. Don't worry, and don't stress about every bad piece you write. You've got time. Your "magnum opus" will come someday. Just wait for it.
"You can love someone so much...But you can never love people as much as you can miss them."
  





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Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:22 am
Master_Yoda says...



EP, I'm sure you'll get over it one day. If you take some good painkiller, I have no doubt that your eyes will start to feel better.

But more seriously, I don't know why you people are struggling so much to contextualize Bukowski's advice. He clearly didn't feel that it needed any more context than he gave it.

Explosive_Pen wrote:But really. Bukowski's saying that if you have to stare at a blank Word document for several hours before finally setting a fingertip on the keyboard, then you're not worth poop.

That doesn't sound like what he's saying to me:
Bukowski wrote:if it doesn't come bursting out of you

in spite of everything,

don't do it.

This sounds more like, don't do it even if it's just a little effort. Your advice, EP, is far more helpful. It tells you not to waste time. Bukowski's tells you not to persevere. There's a big difference.

Have a great one! :)
#TNT

The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
-- Robert Frost

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Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:44 pm
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errtu2 says...



Its really simple guys, if you don't have an almost violent urge to write don't do it. If thats too much to handle, don't write. I know its hard to grasp, but maybe, just maybe, you are not going to be a writer. That is something you have to grapple with. You don't always have to write, but don't write for any other reason than it pours out of you. It doesn't mean don't edit. Why can't anybody seem to get that.

Please, if you understand the poem just comment that you do, give me some faith in this generation of writers.
Those who control their passions do so because their passions are weak enough to be controlled.
- William Blake
Lord, grant me chastity and continence... but not yet.
St. Augustine
When all else fails, we can whip the horses eyes
  





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Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:54 pm
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Sureal says...



Errtu, may I point you in the direction of Douglas Adams, Neil Gaiman, and Danny Wallace? Three very successful writers who struggle (or struggled) with their own lethargy.

There are many writers who suffer from the same problem. Writing professionally takes discipline and dedication, not 'an almost violent urge to write' - because the moment that urge deserts you (writer's block, let's say) you're in trouble.
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Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:13 pm
Lucinda says...



errtu2 wrote:Its really simple guys, if you don't have an almost violent urge to write don't do it. If thats too much to handle, don't write. I know its hard to grasp, but maybe, just maybe, you are not going to be a writer. That is something you have to grapple with. You don't always have to write, but don't write for any other reason than it pours out of you. It doesn't mean don't edit. Why can't anybody seem to get that.

Please, if you understand the poem just comment that you do, give me some faith in this generation of writers.


I *do* understand what your point is: you need to have passion about it. While that's true, I think approaching it with the "Well, if you aren't crazy with the need to write, don't even bother." Some of the best writers, yes, had passion, but I'm sure they also had days where they sweat blood just to get a few sentences out. If they just said, "Well, I'm not really feeling it today. *shrug* Might as well go see what's on TV..." they wouldn't have as much patience *or* as much skill.

And also, it seems like you're deeming the other commenters. Just an observation. Your whole, "Faith in this generation of writers" thing almost offended me, because most people my age who write only when they feel like it end up writing--I don't know--maybe a couple times a month. And so their talent develops about 2%.
But anyway. Rant over. xD
The history of the world
My pet
Is learn forgiveness
And try to forget!

-Sweeney Todd

I'm a damsel...
I'm in distress...
I can handle it.
Have a nice day.

-Hercules

Masquerade!
Paper faces on parade
Masquerade
Hide your face so the world can never find you.

-The Phantom of the Opera
  





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Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:39 pm
Merlin34 says...



errtu2 wrote:Its really simple guys, if you don't have an almost violent urge to write don't do it. If thats too much to handle, don't write. I know its hard to grasp, but maybe, just maybe, you are not going to be a writer. That is something you have to grapple with. You don't always have to write, but don't write for any other reason than it pours out of you. It doesn't mean don't edit. Why can't anybody seem to get that.


If every writer only wrote during a "violent urge" to write, there sure wouldn't be many books around. Sometimes I have an urge to write, maybe not a "GRAH IMMA GONNA KILL SOMEONE IF I DON'T WRITE RIGHT NOW" moment, and sometimes I can open up word and type up a chapter, or finish up an unfinished scene. But sometimes it strikes at school, or I'm outside, or I just don't have access to a computer or any form of writing.

Remember, everyone has their own writing style, but also their own writing process. Something that works wonders for one person may be useless to another. To me, you seem to be acting like this is the style that every bestselling author ever has used and that if you don't use this style, your story will suck. I apologize if that sounds harsh, and I don't mean to offend you, but that's how it went through my head.

And I know an author who most likely used this style. Stephenie Meyer wrote Twilight in three months, and she seems to say that it "burst out of her". Yet Twilight makes a DVD player manual seem like Lord of the Rings.
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Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:27 am
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Galerius says...



Hahahaha...

None of your rebuttals to what the original poster is trying to say come even remotely close to showing a depth of understanding of this poem. You are all building a bastion out of ignorance and sealing the doors to any other mental visitation upon the subject other than your own, that's the only way to put.

What Bukowski meant was that if you don't have the absolute urge to write, if it doesn't take a hold of you and surge your ink-stained hand to the paper, then it's not worth writing. Great authors have had what is cutely termed "writer's block". No great authors have forced themselves to write something that did not stem from their soul and fight its way to the surface of the volcano through its own free will. It was, and should always be, in a passionate ecstasy, if not outside then within. Unfortunately, too many writers here and 90% of the works unfortunate enough to be posted in the poetry and story sections of the website are written simply for the sake of being written, and the writers revel and swell in the tarn of some superfluous achievement of having formulated words.

The abomination called NaNoWriMo is an example of this mentality. You force yourself to write, what, 50,000 words because...

Because...you want to write? You like seeing your own words on paper, that it gives you some sort of nihilistic pleasure to see nothingness embodied? Because you believe that if you drone on enough in the garbage spewed out over the course of 30 days, that you'll finally see Immaculate Mary?

Grow up. Begin to realize (and NaNoWriMo is just an example of the affliction that's attached itself to so many young writers) that one must feed his writing with his soul, not feed his soul with his writing.
  





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Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:01 pm
Merlin34 says...



I've noticed this about both you and errtu2. Nearly all of your work on YWS is poetry, and it seems like the advice in this poem would work better for poetry or maybe short stories. I cannot imagine it working for a novel. Sometimes you can spew out page after page, other times you struggle. Whatever happened to "Write every day" and "Discipline yourself"?

I agree on the NaNo thing though. 50,000 words in 30 days. It's gotta be just... garbage.
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Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:47 pm
Rosendorn says...



I'm rather indifferent to this. To get over writer's block (Major writer's block) I do wait for my MC to demand I write her story. All my ideas have come like that; they've attacked me with a sledgehammer and haven't let me sleep until the ideas are written down. And when they're gone for one project, I either move on to something else or stop writing. My muse will come back again. The idea is too much of me to let go.

And, sometimes, if a short story doesn't demand to be written, I don't push myself to write something that won't be my best. My short stories are stream-of-consciousness or nothing at all. If the idea doesn't spark at me, doesn't take over my mind until I have to write it, then it's not going to be as good a story.

That being said, sometimes I do struggle to write anything in a work. But I always have a goal of some sort: a scene I've been dreaming about writing for months and want to put down on paper. I have several of these "goal scenes" in novels, and one or two in short stories depending on their length. These scenes are often the best written because I want to write them so much. Scenes I don't want to write I have to make myself care about, and they usually come out half-decent. But the idea as a whole still lights a fire in me, and that fire is enough to get me to edit the work.

In just about every writing book I've read, they say "If you're writing to be rich and famous, stop right now." I think that's what this poem's meaning is. If you're writing because you don't have a story begging you at one level or another to be told, just want the title of "writer" by your occupation, then you're not writing for the best of reasons. If you're writing because words stir your soul and ideas keep you up late at night, either in your head or as you type them on the page, then you're writing because you have a story to tell.
A writer is a world trapped in a person— Victor Hugo

Ink is blood. Paper is bandages. The wounded press books to their heart to know they're not alone.
  








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