z

Young Writers Society


The Good, the Bad and the Inbetweens



User avatar
1259 Reviews

Supporter


Gender: Male
Points: 18178
Reviews: 1259
Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:04 pm
Firestarter says...



Several conflicts recently on YWS have brought something to my attention -- exactly how responding to a piece a member has posted can be in the best way beneficial to the writer.

Now, in my experience, there are a few different ways people respond.

1. The Praiser

Look at for phrases such as "I loved it!" or "I can't think of anything wrong with it, it's brilliant!" and the ilk. This is probably one of the most common types of responses on writing forums. In some cases, people just don't know what to say and find the piece in questions brilliant, and find themselves too inferior to criticise. In other instances, people are just trying to be nice and encouraging. However, the real problem is, praise has never spurred anybody on to improve. Calling something "brilliant" psychologically is telling the writer there is nothing to look at that is bad, and that there are no sections in which the reader felt were flawed. Hence, they assume, there are no improvements to be made. While obviously it can improve a writer's confidence, it can hinder their potential improvement. Probably no writer would ever consciously think their piece was flawless but a few comments like that can often mislead a writer.

2. The Spoilsport

Similar to The Praiser, except the opinion is the opposite -- they think the piece is crap and not good at all. It has the same problem as the Praiser, because it doesn't help the writer improve -- there is no indication as to which parts were particularly thought of as bad (or there is a limited explanation). This basically means the writer both doesn't know what to improve and loses confidence in their piece. The second part is particularly bad -- reviews should always strive to be positive and uplifting, even when picking out bad things.

3. The Pedant

The Pedant is the member who quotes excessive amounts of different words, corrects spelling and random grammar mistakes, and doesn't do anything else. Basically they are proof-reading the document. While this can help the writer pick up things they may have missed, in the long run, it doesn't actually help the writer improve at all. There needs to be some indication of what they liked or disliked, and what they thought needed a look at. With a pedant there is none of this, only excessant small mistakes being noticed and quoted.

4. The Vague Commenter

Pretty self-explanatory -- the member decides to tell the writer what they disliked and liked, but never really elaborates. Things like "The characters were good but some were a bit cliche and boring" or "Some of your grammar was off" are the sort of comments that appear in this category. While they, on appearence at least, seem helpful, they are too vague and not specific enough to help the writer locate these supposed problems. The Vague Commenter needs to eradicate their vagueness and particularly specify what they didn't like, with examples.

5. The Critiquer

Lastly, and best of all, is the critiquer. I reserve the word critiquer for someone who actually pulls off a complete critique. What this means is the member has done everything they can to help the writer find exactly what they didn't like or like -- e.g. "I thought your dialogue grammar was off. See *here* and *here* where your commas were in the wrong place. Take a look at this article that can help you understand the rules" They give exact examples. They remain upbeat in their critique and remind the writer about what was great, and how this piece could become much better if they were to follow the advice given. Their comments are intelligent, sound and often pick up things nobody has noticed. They pick up on plot holes, unlikely events and problems with characters. They critique every part of the story -- description, dialogue, action, plot, characterisation, etc. Now, obviously, not every critique is like this -- but most have some of this and are the best way to improving a writer.

While some might say they are to harsh -- the thing is, nobody ever improved without being told what was wrong. If all we heard was "that's brilliant" all our lives, there would be no reason to improve, because, according to what we've heard, everything would already be right. And that's why praise, spoilsporting, pedantic comments, or vagueness aren't needed necessarily, while critiques are.
Nate wrote:And if YWS ever does become a company, Jack will be the President of European Operations. In fact, I'm just going to call him that anyways.
  





User avatar
76 Reviews



Gender: Male
Points: 890
Reviews: 76
Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:15 pm
deleted says...



Can we posts here?

If so, I want ask if I am number 4. If so, this is a pretty vague category for me to fit in. Can you make a #6, "The Slick Jimmy"

The Slick Jimmy category will be for the absolutely brillant commentator. The one that everyone hopes will leave a comment on thier work. Any one belonging to this category cares more about what a poem says and where it came from, while leaving the technical stuff to the number 5's.

But I like this breakdown, nice job Fire.

;-) ;-)
Last edited by deleted on Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  





User avatar
915 Reviews



Gender: Male
Points: 890
Reviews: 915
Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:16 pm
Incandescence says...



Hi Jack,


A nice breakdown here. Largely, I would say I fall into the Spoilsport category, with a few hit-and-miss Critiquer qualities, but that's for others to decide.

It is an unfortunate side-effect of being young that what is unknown to you has often been experienced and encountered repeatedly by your older peers. Also, I am probably just hardened from my own experiences--which have largely consisted of negative reinforcement. No less, if the task of poetry is to "Make it new!", then many pieces here never even get started.

A very helpful breakdown, again, and I'm sure it will help us become better reviewers.


Best,
Brad
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my shoulders." -Hal Abelson
  





User avatar
145 Reviews



Gender: None specified
Points: 890
Reviews: 145
Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:24 pm
Skye says...



Great post, Jack. Definitely something to strive for. :)
"A poet in love is best encouraged in both capacities or neither." ~ Jane Austen, Emma.
  





User avatar
161 Reviews



Gender: Female
Points: 890
Reviews: 161
Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:59 pm
Cassandra says...



A great thing to keep in mind when doing a crit, Jack. I find that too often I'm in category number three, but I'm trying to focus more on the actual story than every single grammar mistake now.

Well put, Skye. 'Tis definitely something to reach for!
"All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring. We must never, ever be boring."
-Chuck Palahniuk
  





User avatar
820 Reviews



Gender: Female
Points: 890
Reviews: 820
Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:59 am
Myth says...



I'm the Critiquer and a bit of the Pedant sometimes.

A great way to look at how some people critique, Jack.
.: β‚ͺ :.

'...'
  





User avatar
2058 Reviews



Gender: Male
Points: 32885
Reviews: 2058
Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:51 pm
Emerson says...



Very nice, really puts everyone in their place! hah.

I'd say I'm a critiquer, but then I'd feel I'm bragging...

I'm also a Pedant which surprises me because IMO I have the worst grammar in the world.

I also see me as a vague one, which I hate but happens a lot when I am rushed. I try to point out specifics and rewords things for people though, so I suppose I'm not that too often.

The first two (spoilsport and praiser) are the hardest to deal with, they make me want to yell...
β€œIt's necessary to have wished for death in order to know how good it is to live.”
― Alexandre Dumas, The Count of Monte Cristo
  





User avatar
266 Reviews

Supporter


Gender: Male
Points: 1726
Reviews: 266
Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:59 pm
backgroundbob says...



I, uh..

I just write stuff. That, y'know, comes to mind.

And I don't really do that often enough, either.

Bit of a mix of several, I guess. And lazy.
The Oneday Cafe
though we do not speak, we are by no means silent.
  





User avatar
798 Reviews



Gender: Female
Points: 17580
Reviews: 798
Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:24 pm
Areida says...



I'm a three and a four, generally in the same post. I quote random grammatical errors that need to be rectified, and then give some vague comment about altering such-and-such. I'm so non-helpful. :P

Snoink's a good example of a five. Which is why we all hate her.
Got YWS?

"Most of us have far more courage than we ever dreamed we possessed."
- Dale Carnegie
  





User avatar
402 Reviews



Gender: Female
Points: 1586
Reviews: 402
Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:49 am
Wiggy says...



I'm a three and a four, generally in the same post. I quote random grammatical errors that need to be rectified, and then give some vague comment about altering such-and-such. I'm so non-helpful.


Me exactly Ari. :D When I'm in the mood for a good, long crit, I do #5. But I'm guilty as the praiser too. (Sorry Claudette! :D) Some pieces are just too good for me to crit, though. They're just way better than I am. :D

Fixed your code! ~Mesh
"I will have to tell you, you have bewitched me body and soul..." --Mr. Darcy, P & P, 2005 movie
"You pierce my soul." --Cpt. Frederick Wentworth

Got YWS?
  





User avatar
3821 Reviews

Supporter


Gender: Female
Points: 3891
Reviews: 3821
Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:46 pm
Snoink says...



Areida wrote:Snoink's a good example of a five. Which is why we all hate her.


I thought I was in between a three and four actually. XD
Ubi caritas est vera, Deus ibi est.

"The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the Master calls the butterfly." ~ Richard Bach

Moth and Myth <- My comic! :D
  





User avatar
221 Reviews



Gender: Female
Points: 890
Reviews: 221
Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:13 am
Elelel says...



Hehe. I'm proabably #4. Or would it be ... nah. I'm pretty sure #4. Sort of #4. Kind of vaguely #4. Maybe vagley #1 too, because I really believe in being encouraging.

I liked this ... catagory thingie. I liked the titles. I'm pretty sure none of your grammar was off, but I'm not very good at it really so I'm not certain. Keep writing!!!
Oh, you're angry! Click your pen.
--Music and Lyrics
  








There's a Brazilian things you could write about. You just gotta pick Juan.
— Hattable