Young Writers Society

I've always wanted to write fiction, but I've never known what exactly to write about, and whatever I came up with, I always decided that it wasn't a good idea and ended up scrapping it not long after I started. Now, I have something that seems worth writing about, and I really want to give it a shot. But I only have a very vague, fuzzy idea of what I want to happen in the story. And I'm the type of person that needs to have some kind of idea of what they're doing ahead of time. And then dialogue is always something I've struggled with. How do I write dialogue that sounds the way that I would talk, and keep it from sounding cheesy or cliché? Any advice on those things?

Hey there! I apologise for this being rather long, but I kind of got on a roll.

Honestly, my first bit of advice for you is this: It's a first draft. First drafts exist to be the idea of what's to come, the loosely-defined plot and characterization that you can then tighten up with further edits and feedback. And as long as you're writing, whether it be a first draft or a tenth, you're still likely to run into details that make you go, "Huh. What if I changed the plot a bit to..."

Starting to write fiction is no easy task. Starting to write anything is no easy task, because of the unfamiliarity with your voice and style, and having to grow back into your skin until you're settled into yourself again. And because you may feel the need to study tropes and subvert everything and find the perfect plot until you've done ten years of planning and have two chapters—but fifty drafts of two chapters!

My second piece of advice: Write. If you need to have some idea of what you're doing, write down a bare-bones plot and outline it two or three chapters in advance; if you reach a point where you feel comfortable winging it for a bit, go ahead and wing it.

Don't feel like you have to restrict yourself to what you initially thought up, and don't be afraid of changing your plot halfway through because the Martian princess is more awesome than you had initially thought she'd be. Don't feel like you have to restrict your characters and stuff them into checkboxes of "good" and "bad" traits, either, just because that's how you have their profiles from before you started writing. Restriction in general in fiction writing, especially in early drafts, can lead to something that feels stifled and may be difficult to edit because you don't know where to go from here.

Third, a bit preemptively for when you start writing: If you feel like you wrote yourself into a corner with your plot, scrap the rest of the plot and blow something up. Have your character make a little, near-fatal mistake; have them break their leg before the big dance recital; have them make a wrong turn and end up in the middle of a gang war with dragons. Write and outline from there.

Trust me, I've been in your situation a lot. Feeling like an idea isn't good enough to write—or like you're not "good enough" to write an idea—is a pretty common quandary in the fiction-writing world, as much so as in the worlds of non-fiction and poetry. When you start writing fiction, you're not going to be the next Stephen King or JK Rowling or George RR Martin automatically (even they weren't like that automatically), and there's a pretty long period of feeling inadequate. I'm not sure if it goes away, but I know it gets better.

As for dialogue: This generally depends on the world, culture, and characters you're writing with.

Some cultures and languages, like Spanish, have formal conjugations that actually affect the literal words someone would use towards someone higher than they are; some cultures and languages, like modern English, are a little looser on those aspects. Some have multiple formal and informal forms, ranging from addressing someone as "high royalty" to addressing them as "pond scum/animal" and anything in-between.

If we're talking about the modern world, you'd still have to define where they're from, their age, ethnic, and socioeconomic groups, as well as their personality. You'd have to define if they cared about people being higher on the ladder than they are, what phrases they're likely to use (e.g., "soda", "pop", or "soda pop"), and a lot about their character to figure out if their dialogue is realistic for them.

It sounds like a lot of work (and nothing is ever easy in fiction), but let's get real: Cheesy dialogue? We've all been there. I'm pretty sure everyone who writes fantasy, sci-fi, teen fiction, any kind of fiction has written some kind of cackling villain or woeful heroine at some point. They probably don't make it to the second draft, let alone the final draft, but the fact of the matter is that they're there, ghosting around their secret lair or sprawled across their fainting couch.

If you want to write dialogue that sounds like the way you would talk, then look at the situation and ask yourself, "What would I say?... What would I say if I had [character]'s personality?" You may be able to only think of cheesy dialogue, but that's what's so great about YWS (and any other feedback source): We'll be able to point it out and help you along with suggestions, and we'll all grow in the process.

Best of luck to you, and I look forward to reading your endeavors in fiction!

Thank you sooo much! That was really helpful, and I'm glad you took the time to put as much detail into it as you did. @Arkhaion

My two cents: Don't start with a novel. Start with short stories. You'll faster gain familiarity with plot arcs, and you'll get in the habit of finishing your work. Plus, you'll be able to play around with a lot of different ideas, and focus, with varying degrees of intensity, on lots of different elements -- character, dialogue, description -- in a short amount of time.

Here's a brief story: I was eight when I decided I wanted to be an author. When I announced this goal to my older sister, she said I ought to start with short stories so I could practice my craft and all and yada yada so on and so forth blah blah blah.

But I didn't want to write short stories. I wanted to write novels. So I wrote novels instead. Short stories and novels are two entirely different animals--their plots and story arcs and characters all work in different ways.

So write what you want to write. Anyone who disagrees with your approach can go jump in a lake, I say!

There are all sorts of writers out there in terms of methodology. You sound as if you're more of the organized, planning sort, so I'd recommend doing some scheming. Prod your idea with pokey things and see how it reacts. The usual Who What Where When Why Hows usually do the trick.

Maybe you want to write a whole detailed outline first. Many published writers do that. Maybe you want just a tiny kernel of an inkling of where things are going. Maybe you want a will o' wisp to follow, or a clear set of train tracks. Whatever metaphor gets you what you want, employ it.

My overall point being: write what you want and how you want, and anyone who says differently can go jump in a particularly cold and unpleasant lake.

As for dialogue, start eavesdropping. This can be both real conversations as well as fictional ones in books or on TV. Tease apart the levels of meaning. There are five main parts to dialogue:

1. The words the speaker actually says.
2. The way the speaker says those actual words.
3. What the speaker really said/intended to say.
4. What the listener hears.
5. Social convention.

Think of it like this. You go to the movie theater. Or a fast food restaurant. Or the grocery store. Or a coffee shop. Somewhere service oriented. The person you talk to will ask, sometimes, something like, "Hi, how are you today?"

Some people will respond with something like, "I'll take two cheeseburgers," or "Two tickets for Iron Man."

Asking a customer "How are you?" is a social convention and a business tactic. In some cases the employee might actually care about how you the customer are feeling, but really the "How are you?" is more a signal of "Ready to take your order or serve you" in a more polite and tidy package.

So customers respond to that underlying function and just jump to whatever they want. Or sometimes, to be polite, the customer will say, "Fine, thanks. How are you?" to which the service person will inevitably go, "I'm great, thanks for asking. What can I get for you today?"

And we arrive back at square one.

Language and conversation are tools. We use them for a reason. Maybe it's to wiggle your way out of an uncomfortable situation. Maybe it's to get information from someone. Maybe it's to convince someone you are a worthy mate. Our ability to accomplish our goals through our words is what determines our charisma and conversational effectiveness.

Just listen for what people are actually saying when they speak. You'll not only be a better writer of dialogue, but also a better communicator. Pretty nifty.

RacheDrache wrote:Short stories and novels are two entirely different animals--their plots and story arcs and characters all work in different ways.

Of course they're different to a degree, but you're overstating with "entirely." I wrote only short stories for years before moving on to a novel, and the principles, the fundamentals of story, are the same.

Prokaryote wrote:

RacheDrache wrote:Short stories and novels are two entirely different animals--their plots and story arcs and characters all work in different ways.

Of course they're different to a degree, but you're overstating with "entirely." I wrote only short stories for years before moving on to a novel, and the principles, the fundamentals of story, are the same.

Naturally. Not disagreeing with you, Prok, just offering my perspective from my own experience (in which short stories as the root of all evil, mwahahahahahem *hacking, dying cough* *dead*)

So when I first started writing, my dialogue SUCKED. Like whoa. It took a lot of practice to learn how to write dialogue well. Which is really, the advice I have to give you. Practice! As with anything in writing, practicing is the key to unlocking any writing lock. Anyone can get better with practice.
ANYWAY.
The dialogue needs to feel natural. I wouldn't worry so much about it sounding cliche, because from what I've seen writers new to the fiction scene's hurdle to jump over is the dialogue sounding stiff and uninteresting. So when you're writing your dialogue, try to sound as natural as possible! The dialogue will come, you just gotta give it time! Practice practice practice! Dialogue is a GREAT tool to use when it comes to fiction (I tend to overuse it myself xD) and I hope it works out for you!!

Hola, I'm like you in that I like to know what happens in a story before I write. Here I've got just a simple plot outline that might help you with your story.

First you break up your story into four parts:
1. The set-up
This is where you introduce us to your main character and their world, as well as the problem, or conflict of the story, often times called the inciting incident.
2. The response
This is how your main character responds to the problem, even though at this point, they don't really know what they're doing. They're kind of exploring the problem, and usually whatever they try to do to solve it fails.
3. The attack
Your character is done exploring the problem, and now it's time for them to really attack it. Of course there still going to fail, the bad guys are getting stronger and the stakes are getting higher, but at least they're trying.
4. The resolution
Your main character finally figures out how to solve the problem. They have a "plan" of some sorts that they're going to carry out. Of course, things will go wrong, and the problem will become even harder to solve, but at the end of this section, the problem has been dealt with, one way or another.

This comes from Larry Brook's Book, "Story Structure."
And as for dialogue, it's definitely something that takes practice, but you can also learn from the people around you. It's totally okay, as a writer, to eavesdrop of people's conversations, pay attention to what they're talking about and how they say it. You can even write it down. I almost always have a notebook handy so I can write down the weird things I hear people say.

And there's my spheel, let me know if you have questions.

Thank you @RacheDrache, @artemis15sc, @LadySpark, and @Prokaryote! Your advice was immensely helpful to me and I really appreciate it!!