Oops, I went over the word limit.

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Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:24 am

MaryEvans says...

I've been diligently working on the second draft of my fanrasy novel, and when I got to about the middle of the story, I realized I had gone over the 120k word limit. In fact, I am about 130k and still have a few chapters to wrap up the arc. This came to me as a somewhat sudden realization pretty much forcing me to cut my story in half it I want it to be publishable. That wouldn’t be such a problem if it wasn’t… well half the story. Going over the usual limit for a first novel is bad enough, but ending on a cliff-hanger is even worse… I am honestly at a loss at what to do. Self-publishing is always an option, but I was hoping to find an agent and a publisher, which would have definately boosted my novel’s quality and marketing.
If I do cut it here, I can wrap up a few story lines, but most of my main plot is still unresolved. So I am faced with either redoing my entire plot, again, or mangling the whole thing to fit the word limit for a first novel. I can always drop a few story lines, but I don't really have that many side stories.
What do you guys think? Have you encountered a similar issue?
Any suggestions are warmly welcomed.

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Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:02 am

ANADIR says...

As a published author, I can definately help you here! I have worked with several publishers when I was trying to get my first book published, and came out sorely dissapointed. But, let us not be dreary. THERE IS NO WORD LIMIT FOR STORIES. You want 150k? fine. You want 500k? Fine. IT DOESN'T MATTER. If you fear it will lower your chances with a publisher, then the publisher you hope to use is not worth your time. So, don't stop your story. Keep writing until YOU feel it is done. Never let anybody tell you when to stop your story. Now, about the publishers. I worked with several publishers, such as Tate Publishing, Red Bucket Publishing, and a few more. Almost all of these are either Vanity Presses, or fakes. When I found out, I would leave. That Is why I self published. But, I got about 30 buys, so It was not a complete failiure.

What I reccomend you do is self publish your first book onto Amazon with either Lulu or KDP. Make it either free, or one dollar. Then, Ask your friends in school or elsewhere to buy it, and review it. Once you have a few reviews, people will begin to notice it. Build up a reasonably good following, and then contact an Agent. Do not go straight to a publisher, because any publisher that accepts a newbie writer is probably a Vanity. (Vanity publishers charge money to publish. NEVER PAY SOMEONE TO PUBLISH YOUR BOOK) www.AgentQuery.com Is a good place to check out- once you have a following. Find an agent with a good track record, and start talking with them. (Warning. Do not give them your full book unless they have a REALLY GOOD TRACK RECORD. (Track Record is books they published.) a good track record would be having a new york times best seller. Also, Send emails to book writers that you like, that arent too popular, but are rather popular. Ask them for tips, and help on publishing industry. Most will help you, and are great about it too. I reccomend reading Confessions of a D-List Villain and talking to its author. He is really great. Wow. That was really long. Well, When you put your book out there, you better tell me, cuz I wanna read it! (And If you want to check out my words for myself, the book I self published is Tripartite by Andy Nadir). It only has a few reviews, but that was absolutely no asvertising. Best of luck! I'll be watching...*creepy smile*

Is it not human nature to want what we cannot have, and yet manage to overlook the blessings piled upon us?

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Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:38 am

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Rosendorn says...

First off, finish writing it. In its entirety. Even though you're well over the word limit, you can't really look at the work till it's been finished.

Second, let it sit for awhile. Long enough you forget how it ends and lose some emotional attachment. Write another book. Write a few dozen short stories. Write anything but that work.

Third, read it. At the macro level. Where do you get bored? Where does it drag on too long? Where is it too fast? Where do you stop for exposition when you don't really need it? Do you have a places where you go A to Z when it really should have it be from A to B? Logic gaps? Places things happen Just Because?

Those are the places you work on first. Tighten, speed up, simplify, give causes, build better relations between characters. Those macro issues are what will impact your plot the most, and you can really only spot them after letting the story sit.

Fourth, fix those spots. Cut them down. Streamline plot. Rewrite anything necessary.

Fifth, repeat. Let things sit, take a break, edit macro issues. You'll probably find more.

It's honestly amazing how much becomes unneeded in a plot after you have let it sit and gotten away from the emotional attachment of "But everything HAS TO BE IN HERE!" to edit.

I've been in that place before, where I want absolutely everything that was planned and it felt horrible to actually think about cutting everything. Then I'd get away from my plot for awhile and reread it, only to realize there were a lot of improvement points where I could streamline it. Once the emotional attachment was gone, improvement happened easier.

Hoep this helps, and good luck!

A writer is a world trapped in a person— Victor Hugo

Ink is blood. Paper is bandages. The wounded press books to their heart to know they're not alone.

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Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:24 pm

MaryEvans says...

Thanks for all the feedback. I'll finish it, that's pretty much certain. I think I will just split it. No matter how much I cut it or take out, or edit, it will not fit into 120k, it just can’t happen. So then cutting in half it is. I'd hate doing it, mostly because of the cliff-hanger, but it can work. Hopefully, I can even use it to my advantage.

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Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:37 am

ANADIR says...

As I said before, You shouldn't cut your story in half. I reccomend finishing it completely, or it will feel like a sudden stop. This could possibly annoy readers, and if you aren't a famous author, make them stop reading your books. But, On the other hand, It may end up having people tagging along behind you waiting for you to publish your next book.

Is it not human nature to want what we cannot have, and yet manage to overlook the blessings piled upon us?

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Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:52 pm

Spotswood says...

Writing isn't about adhering to the superficialness of word limits. Writing is about doing what YOU want, not allowing yourself to be enslaved by the demands of vigorous men who are trying to control your writing from a certain perspective. That's all that needs be said.

"Often, the best way to improve is swallowing your ego and realizing you're a terrible writer in all aspects of writing, then working to improve it."
-R.U.

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Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:33 pm

ANADIR says...

^what he said. Also, If you find yourself in need of a publisher, I found the perfect one. www.smashwords.com

They are a self publishing service, who put your book on apple, amazon, and quite a few more major book sellers. Also, they market your book for free! Why don't you go check it out? Tell me how it goes! (I published both Tripartite and Black Dragon on there, it's worth the time to make an account!)

Is it not human nature to want what we cannot have, and yet manage to overlook the blessings piled upon us?

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Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:25 pm

StoneHeart says...

Two reasons not to cut it in half:

A: I don't believe in Word limits.

B: People don't care how long books are these days.

C: Two books are harder to publish than one -though they might pay back more.

For I who am poor have only my dreams
I spread my dreams under your feet . . .

. . . tread softly for you tread on my dreams.

We are masters of our silences, and slaves of our words

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Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:29 pm

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ANADIR says...

What BN said, but I disagree with C. When you start worring about how much money you get, you start writing what other people want to buy, and you might loose some creativity. Write for the fun of it! Publish to let the world know you wright, and for that one person who likes your writing! (Meaning, tons of people will "like" your work, but that one person who falls in love with your work, who just cant wait for the next book, that's the one you're writing for. There may be more than one, but those are the people you write for, not the ones who would change how you write.

Is it not human nature to want what we cannot have, and yet manage to overlook the blessings piled upon us?

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Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:59 pm

Rosendorn says...

BlackNether12 wrote:Two reasons not to cut it in half:

A: I don't believe in Word limits.

B: People don't care how long books are these days.

C: Two books are harder to publish than one -though they might pay back more.

I'm sorry but A and B are completely incorrect.

Word limits exist for a number of very important reasons.

1- Printing costs money. The (traditional) publisher loses money on your book before they gain on it. First they have to pay you for the rights to your book, then pay for the editing and cover art, any marketing, the printing of the book's first order, and finally they have to pay for the distribution of the book itself. Unless the book's sales make up for these costs, the book will go out of print.

2- There is a physical limit to how big a book can be. Lord of the Rings is one continuous story, but it's too long to actually fit into one printed book. You hit the point where the cost to make it goes over the practicality of simply splitting the book.

3- Long books are still harder to sell. While books such as Harry Potter and Game of Thrones have messed with the word limit a lot, they are anomalies. Because they are often from established authors, where people know the story will likely sell. Never confuse what an established author can get away with vs what a newbie author can get away with. An established author can bend or break the rules a lot more than a new author.

As for C, you're still partially incorrect.

In a series, the first book should be self contained with only the possibility of a sequel. This is because series are harder to sell, since they are a longer commitment on both the publisher's and the reader's part. Publishers have to believe that the book really will sell in order to have a series. Readers have to wait for the next book, and might forget about it in the process.

As for higher payback? That really depends on how much the publisher likes you and your idea. It's only a possibility.

--

If you're going to cut the story in half, you'll have to rework it so the first book is self contained. It is still possible to publish a series, but it'll take more work.

That being said, finish it as a whole and go through the editing process as a whole. If you're still within the first five drafts, the story will change a lot between drafts. I speak from experience, here. You can legitimately wind up with a far different story at the end, and I wouldn't hamstring yourself by committing to any publication changes immediately.

A writer is a world trapped in a person— Victor Hugo

Ink is blood. Paper is bandages. The wounded press books to their heart to know they're not alone.

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Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:28 pm

MaryEvans says...

Officially this is second draft. I have the entire story down both in a first draft and a scene/plot summary. The plot itself was revised and changed a couple of more times inbetween drafts. The point where I am splitting is the end of arc 2, and while it is relativelly finished since 1 of the main plot trends is solved and couple of side stories are resolved, it still feels unfinished no matter what I do since the end comes at a major junction and turn of the plot. I am still thinking how to solve that mess and hopefully I will receive a revelation at some point. This whole deal came quite unexpected since my first draft was 80 000 words so after the changes I didn't expect it to triple.
Anyway, once again thanks for all the feedback, I hope I will come up with a polished, self contained version eventually.

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Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:44 pm

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Rosendorn says...

Yeah, I'm at a couple dozen drafts for my novel and the book count goes up and down depending on what happens in the revising. It's been everything from a trilogy to a single book and back again.

A writer is a world trapped in a person— Victor Hugo

Ink is blood. Paper is bandages. The wounded press books to their heart to know they're not alone.

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Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:09 am

Zolen says...

Hm, there are places that require a word limit? That's stupid. I have heard plenty about publishers saying no for all sorts of reasons, but the one thing you never restrict for an author is how many words they can use. But if you have somehow doubled over said stupid limit, split the book in two, if you can get one out the door you are already prepared if the other book does well.

Self quoting is the key to sounding wise and all knowing.

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Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:36 am

Rosendorn says...

but the one thing you never restrict for an author is how many words they can use

@Zolen Did you not read my post on how printing costs money and publishers have to take a loss on your book before they can gain any profit from it, therefore they need to keep the book to a reasonable size so they know the loss will be most likely recoupable?

This is straight from Tamora Pierce's FAQ:

How long is a book supposed to be?
The limit on most novels for teenagers--up until recently, at least--is 200 manuscript pages (about 250 pages in final book form). (For Intermediate/Young Reader books it's been 150 pages.) For me 200 pages is just long enough for the main character to get into, and (we trust) out of, serious trouble. Often when I try to include detailed information about secondary or minor characters, particularly those from earlier books, I end up having to cut it to meet my page limit. I know what people from other books are doing as I write the new ones--I just rarely have the space to include it. Thanks to J.K. Rowling and Philip Pullman, we're now being given a bit more room: Scholastic has let me run up to 220 pages; Random House gave me an extra 100 pages for SQUIRE. At the risk of sounding weird, though, I think for me keeping the story to around 200 pages, except when writing so complicated a book as SQUIRE, actually makes a better writer of me. I keep the story direct and moving, the cast of characters short; for me, that seems to work very well. (Don't tell my publishers I said this. These days I don't have to panic if I run over 200 pages, and that is a good thing!) Also, even with the wondrous bounty of 300 pages in which to tell the story, I still have to stick pretty close to the story of the main character and those secondary characters most involved with her/his life. I still don't have time or space to include everything about everybody.

Of course, adult novels are a different story, sort of. A good length for a first novel intended for an adult audience is 400 manuscript pages. If your first novel goes over 500 pages, pray that it's really good, because publishers are very skittish about backing a long book by an unknown unless a number of those who have seen it are certain it will be a hit. There is an economic reason for manuscript limits: the cost of paper. If your book is over its limit, even by a handful of pages, paper suppliers bump the price to print it up to the next price category. For example only--I don't know how much the real prices are: paper costs a publisher about fifty cents for 250 pages in final form; a book which comes to 260 pages bumps it up to the next price category, which is seventy-five cents. Publishers care about costs like this if you aren't a bestselling author, and sometimes even if you are.

Publishers can and do limit word/page counts. Even for award winning authors such as Tamora Pierce.

A writer is a world trapped in a person— Victor Hugo

Ink is blood. Paper is bandages. The wounded press books to their heart to know they're not alone.

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Oops, I went over the word limit.

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