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kingdoms



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Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:28 pm
Night Mistress says...



i am thinking about writing a story that involve two kingdom.

my first question is: how does a kingdom work?

and my second question is: does an Elven Kingdom work the same way?
"I love you," she whispered in his ear, before taking his mouth with her own.

~Elizzabeth Grey of Addicting Posion
  





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Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:51 pm
Rosendorn says...



Kingdoms, by definition, are ruled by a king. Depending on the era and setting your king's will is absolute (more empire-like) or they have a counsel that helps come up with laws and solutions to problems.

The highest ranking nobles are kings and queens, their children princes or princesses.

The nobility is made up of earls (highest of the nobility that aren't royal), dukes (title for a relative of the royal family) and barons (landholders for the king). There are quite a lot of other positions including knights, any clergy and other random titles (Like sir and lady)

Elven kingdoms I would think are pretty free-range. Since the traditional fantasy thing is to have them perfect, you might want to mix it up a little to avoid any cliches.

The info on nobility was taken from A Writer's Complete Fantasy Reference.
A writer is a world trapped in a person— Victor Hugo

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Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:37 pm
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Night Mistress says...



thanks.
"I love you," she whispered in his ear, before taking his mouth with her own.

~Elizzabeth Grey of Addicting Posion
  





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Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:17 pm
Antigone Cadmus says...



Well, do you want it to be, like, feudal?
Odi et amo. quare id faciam, fortasse requiris?
nescio, sed fieri sentio et excrucior.
-Catullus, Carmen 85
  





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Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:31 pm
Night Mistress says...



Haruno Sakura wrote:Well, do you want it to be, like, feudal?


middle ages type.
"I love you," she whispered in his ear, before taking his mouth with her own.

~Elizzabeth Grey of Addicting Posion
  





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Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:28 am
Antigone Cadmus says...



Then you wouldn't only have kings, but there would be lords as well.

The serfs were the poor people who lived under the lord and had to give him ludicrous amounts of their crops in exchange for protection. The lord didn't do much. :)
Odi et amo. quare id faciam, fortasse requiris?
nescio, sed fieri sentio et excrucior.
-Catullus, Carmen 85
  





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Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:08 pm
Rosendorn says...



Whops, forgot about that.

Problem is the middle ages were so complicated. It would take forever to type out all the different positions in the high, middle and lower class.

Serfs were also tied to the land they worked (there were peasants who weren't tied to the land, btw). Sometimes they would turn to crime to make ends meet.
A writer is a world trapped in a person— Victor Hugo

Ink is blood. Paper is bandages. The wounded press books to their heart to know they're not alone.
  





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Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:51 pm
Night Mistress says...



ah. okay. thanks. the structure of my kingdom is going to like how Tamora Pierce has hers. Lower city, and palace at the center.
"I love you," she whispered in his ear, before taking his mouth with her own.

~Elizzabeth Grey of Addicting Posion
  





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Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:55 pm
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Rosendorn says...



That makes explaining things a heck of a lot easier!

Well then, now that I have a loose structure, let me continue:

If you have some sort of religion, your temple workers will probably be pretty high in society. You can make up your own temple positions and goddesses. That's half the fun in fantasy.

If your making it like Tamora Peirce, then you'll have fief holders. These can be any of the nobility mentioned above, including the princes and princesses (that's not in her work, but it was something that happened in history). Being a fief holder makes you "noble", weather you were common born or not (George), and the king can give those grants. Sometimes there is a branch of government that makes sure all the land is in the correct hands. Dukes, being members of the royal family, are just about the only ones that don't need to hold an individual fief to be considered nobles.

The lower city then will be home to police, rogues and usually the poor (some people who work in the lower city do pretty well). Btw- Terrier is completely set in the Lower City.

Merchants will be below nobility but above the lower class. Depending on how well the do, they will be closer to one end or the other. The same goes for healers (although they can be in the lower class if they don't make enough) and just about every other position.

If you want anything else, drop me a line.
A writer is a world trapped in a person— Victor Hugo

Ink is blood. Paper is bandages. The wounded press books to their heart to know they're not alone.
  





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Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:00 pm
Night Mistress says...



thanks, Rosey.
"I love you," she whispered in his ear, before taking his mouth with her own.

~Elizzabeth Grey of Addicting Posion
  





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Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:58 pm
Lord Anzius says...



Middle age classes:

Nobles
Church
middle class (rich people,)
towns folk
lower class (peasants.)

Nobles: Emperor & Empress
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King & Queen (A king is a head of state, who may or may not, depending on the style of government of a nation, exercise monarchal powers over a territory, usually called a kingdom or a realm. A king is the second highest noble title, surpassed only by emperor)
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Grand Duke & Grand Duchess (or grand prince)
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Archduke & Archduchess
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Prince & Princess
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Infante & Infanta (son of prince or princess)
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Duke & Duchess (A duke is a member of the nobility, historically of highest rank below the monarch, and historically controlling a duchy or a dukedom)
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Marquess & Marchioness (basically the same as Margrave... only higher in rank than him/her)
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Margrave & Margravine (A Markgraf, or margrave, originally functioned as the military governor)
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Count & Countess (or Earl by other name) referring especially to chieftains set to rule a territory in a king's stead.

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Viscount & Viscountess (About the same as the feudal age Lord. A root of the non-nobiliary, royal-appointed office of sheriff also is a debuty count.)
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Baron & Baroness (Lowest nobility rank)
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Lesser lord (Normally a knight but not necessarily. Appointed by a count or a viscount [normally, but can be appointed by about anyone over his rank.])
(lesser lords aren't nobility.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To copy reality is good... But to create reality is much, much better.
-Giuseppe Verdi-
  





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Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:01 pm
Night Mistress says...



thanks. Lord Anzius.
"I love you," she whispered in his ear, before taking his mouth with her own.

~Elizzabeth Grey of Addicting Posion
  





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Thu Jan 01, 2009 2:02 am
Night Mistress says...



if you guys have any more info for me, please feel free to post or pm me about it.
"I love you," she whispered in his ear, before taking his mouth with her own.

~Elizzabeth Grey of Addicting Posion
  





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Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:54 pm
kris says...



Not all Kings were absolute. In England Kings were tempered by a powerful council of barons, left over from the old Anglo-Saxon tradition of elected Kings. Later English Kings were bound to parliament by treaty (magna carta) and then constitution.

France however, had an absolute monarchy; where the King was seen as a divine being.

The ranking of nobles also differs country to country. The English/British system is very similar to the French system ( enherited from the Normans) and it goes like this:

King/Queen (Sovreign)
Crown Prince ( Heir)
Grand Duke/Grand Duchess(Ruler of a nation within a Kingdom eg. Grand-Duchey of Cornwall is in England.
Arch Duke/ Arch Duchess (Brother or sister to the King/Queen)
Prince/ Princess ( Son's Daughters of King Queen)
Duke/ Duchess
Marquis/ Marquiness
Margrave/ Margravine
Earl/ Countess
Viscount/ Viscountess
Baron/ Baroness
Kinght/ Dame


In respect to an elfish kingdom... I guess you can do what you like. Though typically elves are seen as hierarchical, so a structured caste or feudal system would work well.
  





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Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:21 am
~Excalibur~ says...



Don't forget that even Kings were subject to religious law for many ages. If the Kings disobeyed the power of the church and its ways they tend to lose favor, it was only after the systematic weakening of the church did the separation become measurable. Yet even today it is not a large gap, even in the US we see this religious chain of bred men to fill the position.

Much of the other issues of the middle ages can be cleared up locally by some research at the library.

Regarding Elf/Elven/Elfkin it depends on your sources.

Tolkien style was graceful and almost divine elves, they were peace loving and did not possess a large standing army, yet had plenty for conflicts when they did arise. Heavy research into Tolkien notes will help you most with this.

True lore has a bunch of conflicting points. That the demi-races came in many shapes and forms, humanity was just the most undesirable and destructive one, hence our rallying together in communities and wide-scale abuse of natural order. In folklore many of the elves and dwarves once lived with us, some of these elves would be more similar to fairies though.

In exchange for some bits of food they would help with the housework or crops or simply finding your way home. Others would be malicious and were to blame for a lot of misfortune, disappearances and even death. The key idea with all these folklore, most live in small communities or families with lords and kings/queens being outside human knowledge.

Take this route opens up a lot of options for storylines, but some historical evidence, going as far back as the Roman era tell of elves as they were rare, but benevolent diminutive people.

If you ever played Magic: The Gathering you would see a lot of elves of all kinds, but lately they have taken on a shape much more dangerous breed. Hunting down things that are not as beautiful or perfect as they are. Training wolves as pets, protecting gargantuans, general druids and savage warriors with power and flexibility.

Just go the way you want, plenty of source material out there.
Currently writing Gaea Arc #1 - Poisoned Throne

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