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Need Help about Angels and Valkyries



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Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:31 am
Valkyreminator says...



Hello peoples.

As you can see, i am still a new member, thus i need your help.

I have been writing a story about a teenager who have been experiencing a repeating series of dream about the darkness. He was called in the dream to "Unleash" something which could be anything.

This story will have some religious aspect and heavily involve Angels.

Now, I have a question, what is the difference between Angels and Valkyries?

Answers will definitely help my project.
  





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Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:28 pm
Meep says...



From what I understand, a Valkyrie is a type of angel, sort of. They serve essentially the same (or similar) purpose of angels, only they seem to have a single job, as opposed to being varied like angels.

Merriam Webster wrote:Middle English, from Old English engel & Anglo-French angele; both from Late Latin angelus, from Greek angelos, literally, messenger.


If you're going to have lots of angel-lore in your book, I'd recommend finding A Dictionary of Angels. It has everything you could ever possibly know about angels and more.
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Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:02 pm
Myth says...



(Norse mythology) one of the maidens of Odin who chose heroes to be slain in battle and conducted them to Valhalla.


From Word Web Online or check out Wikipedia on Angels and Valkyries. I guess every religion has their own form of either.
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Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:11 pm
Lilyy03 says...



I think angels are more general, in terms of what cultures have them and what they do. From what I understand Valkyrie and specific to Norse mythology, and their job was to escort heroes who died in battle to the afterlife.
  





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Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:43 am
carelessaussie13 says...



Valkyries were Norse warrior women who were legendary for their strength and skill. It was said that if a great warrior dies in battle he would be taken by the Valkyries. They lived on a huge island. Um. . .yeah. That's pretty much it.

Angels are most commonly Christian, and are sent by God to help the people on a path to a more holy life. They teach, preach and offer a guiding hand. Where Valkyries are tough, angels are gentle. Also, angels can be men or women and Valkyries are only women. Good luck on your story
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Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:01 am
Meep says...



!
Actually, Angel's aren't strictly (or even most commonly) Christian. The angels we think of as angels - Gabriel, Michael, Uriel, Raphael, etc - are all Abrahamic angels, meaning they're Judeo-Christian and in some cases (particularly Gabriel/Jibril), Muslim as well.

Merriam-Webster wrote:1. a spiritual being superior to humans in power and intelligence; especially : one in the lowest rank in the celestial hierarchy
2. an attendant spirit or guardian
3. a usually white-robed winged figure of human form in fine art
4. messenger or harbinger

(emphasis added)

Although other religions don't call them "angels"* there are angelic beings in almost every religion. They're the messengers of the gods, or something similar. (Or messenger gods, I suppose.) The Valkyries serve an angelic-like purpose: they're a go-between for God & man.

*has done a lot of research on this*



---
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Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:25 am
Caligula's Launderette says...



To go on what everyone has been seeing, if you want more information on Valkyrie's check out: www.godchecker.com & www.pantheon.org.

Godchecker: http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/nors ... =VALKYRIES

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Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:56 am
sabradan says...



A Valkerie is a angel-like warrior woman from Norse mythology. Literally, a Valkerie was a "Maiden of Odin" who would take slain warriors, who had proven themselves particularly brave in battle, to the Hold of Odin, Valhalla, the Hall of Slain Heroes.

Whereas Angels are Judeo-Christian concept and are servants of/messengers for the Almighty.
"He who takes a life...it is as if he has destroyed an entire world....but he who saves one life, it is as if he has saved the world entire" Talmud Sanhedrin 4:5

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Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:37 pm
Meep says...



sabradan wrote:Whereas Angels are Judeo-Christian concept and are servants of/messengers for the Almighty.


I'd like to refer you to my above post.
Winged men in white robes playing harps are largely a Judeo-Christian-Muslim artistic tradition,* but angels in the broader sense are messengers between the almighty and the mortal, and not strictly Abrahamic. (There are, for instance, Hindu thingummies that are angels, they're just not called angels because of the language difference.)

---
*Biblical angels spend a lot of time kicking ass, and not a lot of time playing harps.
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Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:37 pm
sabradan says...



Meep wrote:
sabradan wrote:Whereas Angels are Judeo-Christian concept and are servants of/messengers for the Almighty.


I'd like to refer you to my above post.
Winged men in white robes playing harps are largely a Judeo-Christian-Muslim artistic tradition,* but angels in the broader sense are messengers between the almighty and the mortal, and not strictly Abrahamic. (There are, for instance, Hindu thingummies that are angels, they're just not called angels because of the language difference.)

---
*Biblical angels spend a lot of time kicking ass, and not a lot of time playing harps.


I never said anything about playing harps. But, according to tradition, they ARE winged. But yes, of course, I do know that they kicked a lot of a**. After all, the Angel of Death, Cherubim, etc.

Furthermore, I refer you to Pirkei Avot and a Torah.org article about said passage, having to do with angels and how they affect human life:


Creating Angels

Chapter 4, Mishna 13(a)

By Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld

"Rabbi Eliezer ben (son of) Yaakov said, one who fulfills one mitzvah (commandment) acquires himself a single defending angel. One who commits one transgression acquires one accusing angel. Repentance and good deeds serve as a shield before retribution."

This mishna provides us with a number of important insights regarding G-d's justice system -- both the system itself and how we may influence it. The first point is that our good and bad deeds create angels which will either defend or accuse us at the time of judgment. (According to Jewish tradition, there are three times at which a person stands judgment: every year at the High Holidays (reviewing the previous year and in judgment for the coming), at a person's death, and on the final Judgment Day at the end of world history to determine if he will be worthy of the Resurrection and his ultimate level of relationship with G-d.)

The concept of defending and accusing angels is significant for a number of reasons. I believe when I grew up I was taught a much more simplistic notion -- that after we die our good and evil deeds will be placed on some giant heavenly scales -- our deeds would somehow be converted into black and white gravel -- and the heavier side would determine our fate. To be fair, there are midrashic statements which employ this type of metaphor. Yet it is clear from our mishna that as little as we know about our fates after death -- and the Torah seems to intentionally preserve it as an enigma -- our judgment will be much more profound and exacting. Good and bad deeds cannot just cancel each other out on some giant scale. Every good act creates an angel -- a force of good -- both in this world and in the next. Likewise, every sin creates a reality of evil which can never be fully ignored. Good and evil exist on a plane and in a form unimaginable to us in our finite state. A prosecuting angel, once brought into existence, carries with it a voice of accusation -- one which cannot be stilled until some form of rectification is achieved -- whether through repentance, purgatory or a combination of the two.

There is a second significance to the concept of defending and prosecuting angels. Angels -- again, according to the little we really know of them -- are functioning spiritual beings, ones with features and characteristics in some ways the spiritual equivalent of the human being. Now say a person performs a good deed but of imperfect nature -- he recited prayers without emotion or he pledged charity for public recognition. The angel created will too be imperfect. It will not be able to testify before the Heavenly Tribunal in an ideal manner. Just as our prayers were hurried or mumbled, so too will our defending angels speak. Just as our worthy deeds contained petty or selfish motives, so too -- in ways we can only imagine -- will our angels be deficient.

Unfortunately, there are many ulterior motives which find their way into our deeds. We may treat others well for want of their business or some other return favor -- or simply for the honor we will receive in their eyes. We may perform a ritual - such as eating matzah on Passover -- with little thought of its true significance. Deeds which are empty of meaning - - or full of ulterior motives -- will create angels which are little better. If we were lucky enough to be judged with a simple set of heavenly scales, perhaps a sincere deed would weigh ten pounds while an insincere one would way one. It would be better than nothing. As G-d's true justice dictates, however, an impure or wrongly motivated deed may literally be powerless to truly defend us.

For this reason, we mentioned once in the past that it is far more beneficial for our spiritual growth to focus on one or a few mitzvos (commandments) rather than grabbing out at a whole slew of superficial deeds. (If anyone can find the past class in which we wrote that, he or she is welcome to a no-prize! I couldn't come up with it in a quick search... :-) We should make sure we do at least one thing well -- with forethought, reflection and devotion. It could mean taking a single prayer from the prayer book and reciting it with sincere devotion. Or it could be a matter of taking a single good quality -- say honesty -- and upholding it with uncompromising zeal. Or it could be some very small act of sacrifice -- ordering fish only at non-kosher restaurants -- so that while the person realizes he or she is far from perfect, what he does observe he does with unwavering dedication.

And such acts of sacrifice and commitment will serve us well when we one day stand before our Maker -- very possibly better than thousands of repetitive acts of empty ritual. Sometimes a single act of devotion and altruism may make an entire life worthwhile (and for that it's never too late). As the Talmud puts it, "Whether one does much or little, so long as he directs his heart towards Heaven" (Berachos 5b).


I realize its a bit long, but if we are going to be getting into a theological discussion, then things of this length are necessary.
"He who takes a life...it is as if he has destroyed an entire world....but he who saves one life, it is as if he has saved the world entire" Talmud Sanhedrin 4:5

!Hasta la victoria siempre! (Always, until Victory!)
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Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:46 pm
Meep says...



I wasn't arguing that angels don't have wings; my point was that they aren't strictly Abrahamic or even of Judeo-Christian origin. Angels are an almost universal part of any religion, in that they are the messengers or go betweens for the man and God(ess/es/whatever). Hermes/Mercury could be called an angel because he was the messenger between the Gods on Olympus and the men of Greece, at least in some myths. The Devas in Hinduism are often called gods, but the word "Deva" is closer to what we'd call an angel than what we'd call a god. &c.

(Will read that article in a bit.)
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Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:12 am
sabradan says...



Actually, not really. Angels ARE a judeo-Christian idea. Hermes is a God in and of himself, and while he served as the Messenger of Olympus, that is not his only form. He was the patron of Theives, Merchants, Lawyers and Politicians. I suggest you read the Homeric Hymn "To Hermes" by, well, Homer. This will give you more insight into Hermes.

I'm not as well versed in eastern philosophy/religion, but my understanding of the Devas is that tehy are a sort of "lesser gods"
"He who takes a life...it is as if he has destroyed an entire world....but he who saves one life, it is as if he has saved the world entire" Talmud Sanhedrin 4:5

!Hasta la victoria siempre! (Always, until Victory!)
-Ernesto "Che" Guevarra
  





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Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:48 am
Meep says...



sabradan wrote:Angels ARE a judeo-Christian idea.

I'm not as well versed in eastern philosophy/religion, but my understanding of the Devas is that tehy are a sort of "lesser gods"


Merriam Webster wrote:1. a spiritual being superior to humans in power and intelligence; especially : one in the lowest rank in the celestial hierarchy

Men in white robes with harps and wings are Abrahamic; divine messengers are not. By the definition there, Devas are angels in that they are superior to humans but lower than gods. Valkyries, too, would fit into this category: they are clearly divine in nature, but they are not the divine.

Hermes was, perhaps, a bad example, in that he is a god in his own right.
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Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:19 am
Griffinkeeper says...



sabradan wrote:A Valkerie is a angel-like warrior woman from Norse mythology. Literally, a Valkerie was a "Maiden of Odin" who would take slain warriors, who had proven themselves particularly brave in battle, to the Hold of Odin, Valhalla, the Hall of Slain Heroes.

Whereas Angels are Judeo-Christian concept and are servants of/messengers for the Almighty.


Just to expand on Sab's post a little bit.

After being taken to Vahalla, the warriors would rest until the final apocalyptic battle would occur between Loki and the forces of evil and Odin and the forces of good.

So, let's be clear on this. Valkyries would most certainly be found over recent battlefields, collecting the souls of dead warriors. Angels would be found as some sort of messenger of god.

The use of angel would be much more general than the use of Valkyrie.
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Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:46 pm
sabradan says...



Griffinkeeper wrote:
sabradan wrote:A Valkerie is a angel-like warrior woman from Norse mythology. Literally, a Valkerie was a "Maiden of Odin" who would take slain warriors, who had proven themselves particularly brave in battle, to the Hold of Odin, Valhalla, the Hall of Slain Heroes.

Whereas Angels are Judeo-Christian concept and are servants of/messengers for the Almighty.


Just to expand on Sab's post a little bit.

After being taken to Vahalla, the warriors would rest until the final apocalyptic battle would occur between Loki and the forces of evil and Odin and the forces of good.

So, let's be clear on this. Valkyries would most certainly be found over recent battlefields, collecting the souls of dead warriors. Angels would be found as some sort of messenger of god.

The use of angel would be much more general than the use of Valkyrie.


RAGNAROK!!!!!!
"He who takes a life...it is as if he has destroyed an entire world....but he who saves one life, it is as if he has saved the world entire" Talmud Sanhedrin 4:5

!Hasta la victoria siempre! (Always, until Victory!)
-Ernesto "Che" Guevarra
  








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