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Your Views on Homosexuality

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Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:17 am
Snoink says...



Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most major religions also stress the idea of equality? From my understanding of religion, God was supposed to have created everyone equal.


This isn't true for the Christian religion. God treated people individually throughout the Bible. Equality for all is a rather modern concept.

In any case, Christianity states that you are supposed to love God and love your neighbor. Not that you are to treat everyone equally. You are to treat them with love. It's a very profound difference.
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Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:33 am
parigirle says...



Ah, I see. Thank you for the clarification. I go to a Catholic school and in religion class, our teacher spoke of God creating men equal, so that's probably what I was thinking of. Admittedly, my class may not be the most reliable source.




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Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:47 am
Snoink says...



Haha! Your teachers were partly right, partly wrong. This is what the Catholic Catechism has to say about this:

2334 "In creating men 'male and female,' God gives man and woman an equal personal dignity." "Man is a person, man and woman equally so, since both were created in the image and likeness of the personal God."

So, man and woman are treated personally, but they are equally a person. So, that means neither man nor woman are subhuman, but are at an equal level as they are both persons. So, that's what it means by equal.

And dignity is something else... it's described as this:

357 "Being in the image of God the human individual possesses the dignity of a person, who is not just something, but someone. He is capable of self-knowledge, of self-possession and of freely giving himself and entering into communion with other persons. And he is called by grace to a covenant with his Creator, to offer him a response of faith and love that no other creature can give in his stead."

So, that's how personal dignity is described. ^^
Ubi caritas est vera, Deus ibi est.

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Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:13 am
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lil-mizzkitty1 says...



I'm replying to this on my phone so there will be a whole lot of errors, be warned!
I'm a muslim but I grew up in the UK so my views I think are kind of distorted in that sense. I'm pretty sure that if I met a homosexual person I wouldn't automatically go eww or into a lecture about the 'sin' they're comitting. I am fine with all gay people but.. (this is where I get hypocritical, I admit)
I am extremely uncomfortable around Muslim Gays. I guess it mostly comes from growing up in a muslim family and learning about Islam since I was 4 years old. Then a few weeks ago I discovered my childhood neighbour who used to spoil me with gifts and books and used to encourage me when I was young was a closet muslim gay. He hid that fact that he was Muslim from people not the fact that he was attracted to men. His reasoning behind it was that he was gay and he knew it was a sin but he did not want to stop being gay so since he realized this he could not ever commit to being a completely devout muslim and given himself in submission to god so instead of trying to be both he wanted to try do a good deed for his god and not disclose that fact that he was a muslim gay to people. This sent me on a complete 360 as to how I feel about gays, muslim gays in general. I mean this was a man I grew up with and trusted and I don't know what to do wirh this information. So to conclude I guess this is how most people feel about homosexuality conflicted. Some people see it as right or wrong and they're blessed to see it that way because I wish I could instead of being stuck in the middle of whether it's right or wrong.

On the topic of marrige. In islam we actually have a separate system apart from the government ones for marrige contracts and so on so it wouldn't really be a devastating loss for the muslim community who are against gays if homosexuals were allowed to be married. But I can see where the Christian/Jewish view point is coming from I guess.

So that my view on homosexuality
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Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:51 pm
JordanWilson says...



Anybody who empoys the rotting carcass of religion in order to defend homophobia is a fool. And a bigot.
To be homosexual is natural - just as natural as heterosexuality. To claim that heterosexuality is superior is disgraceful. The Islamic view of homosexuality, as well as that of Christians, is nothing short of totalitarian nonsense.




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Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:07 pm
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Cole says...



Jordan, funny that you mention "bigots", considering what you just displayed is bigotry and prejudice towards people of faith.

There is a difference between disagreeing with homosexuality and damning those who practice it. Please understand the difference before you demonize all religious people.

Be respectful. It's not a lot to ask for.
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Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:23 pm
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JordanWilson says...



HaydenSmith wrote:Jordan, funny that you mention "bigots", considering what you just displayed is bigotry and prejudice towards people of faith.

There is a difference between disagreeing with homosexuality and damning those who practice it. Please understand the difference before you demonize all religious people.

Be respectful. It's not a lot to ask for.


I displayed no bigotry, actually. Allow me to ask you a question - is it ok for somebody to disagree with a certain ethnicity's existence? Of course not. We should not respect that, so why respect homophobic bigotry? Because it is religious? That is not a good argument. I won't withdraw my opinion simply because it offends people of faith. It offends me when people of faith practice homophobia, but I do not ask them to hide it.




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Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:33 pm
Plus-One says...



Jordan, funny that you mention "bigots", considering what you just displayed is bigotry and prejudice towards people of faith.

I think the sentiment is more: "The only thing I won't tolerate is intolerance." I don't think it's purely a statement against religion, more of one against people using it as a grounding to claim that they have the right to act out in prejudice.

I have had a little scan of this blog, but it's very long. I guess this is were I come out and say it. I am Gay. Well at least that is the best way of describing my sexuality. I don't actually believe in labelling sexualities in general so I tend to not define as anything, but when it comes down to it, yeah I like guys. And I can't control that. And I have tried. More than once. Which I guess is proof on some level that sexuality isn't (generally) something you can change at will.

I come from a Catholic family, and it's a bit of a sticky area with them. Particularly as when my parents were growing up, homosexuality was a criminal offence. In the end I have found that what my family believe about religion is not all the little laws and technical points made in the bible (I tend to believe the bible is a tool of repression), but the concept of love and living a "good" life. In the end, loving someone wholeheartedly shouldn't be considered bad regardless of their gender...

With regards to my stance on Homophobia, I have the general philosophy of: "If you keep it to yourself, I will keep my opinions on your beliefs/lifestyle to myself." ... And I have recently taken a stance against casual homo and transphobia. The things like using "Gay" to mean stupid. Or using "faggot" to question someone's masculinity. Or any other ridiculous term or stereotype. My response is normally a polite educational paragraph about the origin of words and why its use is bad and then I leave it up to them to decide whether they continue to use the phrases around other people.

Anyway, that's enough rambling for now. I think I'm just making points without really thinking about how they connect to anything right now. :P
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Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:22 am
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Cole says...



(I mentioned some of this before)

Jordan: Of course you displayed bigotry. And you have the same prejudice and lack of respect towards people of faith that you accuse them of having.

Like I said, there is a difference between disagreeing with homosexuality and damning those who practice it.

Not all people of faith are the same, so I find your ill-founded assumptions insulting. There are many so-called Christians that condemn and dehumanize the gay community, which falls far from Christ's teachings. Don't equate these kinds of people with the Christians who are actually trying to help people.

To people of faith, homosexuality (whether it is genetic or not) is a lifestyle where someone sleeps with someone else of the same sex. (It is not an ethnicity, by the way. Homosexuality is completely different than a race like African American, Asian, or Indian.) Lust and other carnal, animalistic instincts are natural impulses, but Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, and Muslims discard those as wrong, too. Homosexuality occurring naturally is not going to change the way people of faith look at it. We deny natural instincts and fleshly impulses everyday.

Homosexuality isn't the only sexual sin that most people of faith disagree with. Pre-marital sex is a sin, adultery is a sin... there are plenty of sexual sins that people commit everyday, including Christians. But are we being discriminatory to teen moms and men who cheat on their wives? Let's look at marriage laws. Jesus condemns divorce in all forms, the only exception is when adultery is involved. Does that mean that we hate all of the people who are divorced for petty reasons?

I am against homosexuality (not romantic relationships, just sexual affairs), but it doesn't mean I am afraid of gay people (homophobic) or that I hate them. To equate mere disagreement with hatred is thoughtless and irrational.

Quit assuming people of faith are being bigots just because they have a different opinion than you.

I have gay friends. I mentioned in an earlier post that one of my best friends is Muslim and gay. Am I patronizing him because I have different beliefs?
My heart holds all secrets; my heart tells no lies.

~Hosea 6:3~
ונדעה נרדפה לדעת את יהוה כשחר נכון מצאו ויבוא כגשם לנו כמלקוש יורה ארץ׃




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Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:33 am
Plus-One says...



To be fair I am more fond of religions that don't condemn acts of mutual consent as sin. If it's a mutual consent, why is it considered wrong? What sense is a law that convicts someone for a completely victimless "crime"...? But I guess this comes down to moral codes and what religions/individuals see as being "right". So each to their own.

I just want everyone to be happy and accepting and lovely. Why isn't the world like that? :smt022
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Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:56 am
Cole says...



If it's a mutual consent, why is it considered wrong?


Not sure if this was a legit question, but let me show you my reasoning through faith. (I have mentioned this stuff before, too)

Just so you all know, the Bible condemns "a man lying with a man". The Bible does not condemn gay relationships. However, we seem to live in a self-indulgent, hedonistic, pleasure-striving society that believes lust and sex are the same thing as love and affection. God does not say that two men or two women are forbidden to love one another, to share in an loving relationship.

Christ (and the Septuagint--Hebrew Bible) teaches that marriage is a holy union when a man and a woman become one in spirit, mind, heart, and body (sex). If you have read the Song of Songs (supposedly written by the Hebrew King, Solomon), Scripture teaches that sex is not a part of a casual relationship, but it is a gift from God. It is a sacred gift given to a man and his wife so that they may share in a physical, as well as emotional, connection and have children. It is specifically intended for marriage only, which is why God says that any other use of it (homosexuality, premarital sex, adultery, bestiality) is a sin, for it defiles His gift.

Now, on a different note, as for everyone being loving and accepting... many people in the past have come up with great solutions (Christ Jesus, Socrates, Mahatma Gandhi) but, usually those people are swept under the rug.
My heart holds all secrets; my heart tells no lies.

~Hosea 6:3~
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Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:35 am
Plus-One says...



Is this the same part of the bible (Leviticus) that preaches ritual sacrifice, including repentance by sacrifice, not working on a sabbath, setting aside one year in every seven in which you should not farm, and stoning people as a punishment for blasphemy? How much of this book do most christians actually follow? Why is one particular line in it deemed more important than the rest?

Not to mention that it is more preaching of Jewish beliefs...

I mean the Old Testament supported polygamy. And yet that is now considered a sin by most religions, and illegal by most western countries. It seems to me a little odd that beliefs (particularly old testament ones) can be so selective.

If we are taking the route of sex being a gift between a man and a woman, we are presumably saying sex is purely for baby making. Which means all forms of contraception (including the rhythm method) are sins too?

I mean I get these are some peoples' beliefs, but I don't understand why they are so inconsistent, or even what the logic behind each rule is.
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Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:22 am
Pigeon says...



Just so you all know, the Bible condemns "a man lying with a man". The Bible does not condemn gay relationships. However, we seem to live in a self-indulgent, hedonistic, pleasure-striving society that believes lust and sex are the same thing as love and affection. God does not say that two men or two women are forbidden to love one another, to share in an loving relationship.
I don't really get this. Sure, lust and sex are not the same as love and affection, but sex is important for healthy relationships. Physical affection actually contributes to the formation and deepening of love.

From http://people.howstuffworks.com/love7.htm

In romantic love, when two people have sex, oxytocin is released, which helps bond the relationship. According to researchers at the University of California, San Francisco, the hormone oxytocin has been shown to be "associated with the ability to maintain healthy interpersonal relationships and healthy psychological boundaries with other people."

Vasopressin, an antidiuretic hormone, is another chemical that has been associated with the formation of long-term, monogamous relationships.

Endorphins, the body's natural painkillers, also play a key role in long-term relationships. They produce a general sense of well-being, including feeling soothed, peaceful and secure. Like dopamine and norepinephrine, endorphins are released during sex.
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Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:36 am
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Cole says...



Firstly, I mentioned that sex wasn't just for bearing children, but it was also a literal, physical connection between a husband and his bride. It is symbolic of their spiritual and emotional unity due to their marriage.

And Pigeon, it is a belief according to Judaism/Christianity that sex is holy. We advocate it because it is sacred (among marriage), not because it is healthy. Masturbation is very healthy, but the Bible actually condemns that practice because it leads to lustful thoughts.

Let me put it simply, Plus-One. When Christ came to us, He established the New Covenant.

Christ did not abolish the entirety of Moses' laws (Matthew 5:17) and told us the He still trusted in the words of Moses.

Because Christians hold the law of Christ above Moses, we observe the Mosaic laws differently, we treat them differently. Christ showed us how to respond to sin in a different way. We no longer stone people, burn people (or we shouldn't. A lot of very Un-Christ-like people have done blasphemous things in the name of God, such as the Crusades, the witch hunts, etc.) Christ taught us a new way to react to sin, but the sins are still the same; Christ has merely taught us to respond to those sins differently. The morality, however, is unchanged.

So, simply, because of the New Covenant, we are called to treat sin differently. Jesus addressed the things He wanted to change (such as food restrictions, divorce, punishment for sin, appropriate number of wives, etc.), but other than the minor changes He made, He still expected us to observe the laws of Moses. We are just called to treat it and look at it differently--through His eyes.

Unfortunately, these days, many Christians put Moses' law above Christ's. Christ, though He preached about living virtuously and aiming for a sinless life, said that His first two greatest commandments were to honor and love God, and to love your neighbor as you love yourself. Love God and love other people were His two greatest priorities for Christians. And many people forget that.

(And Leuitikos (Leviticus) is not the only book in the Septuagint that mentions same-gender sexual relations. That’s just the most popular one.)

I also agree with you that many Christians put too much emphasis on homosexuality. They don't stop and realize that everyone (according to our doctrine) is a sinner for different reasons (usually more reasons than just one). A man might be gay, but he may also be a liar or a thief. People are generally sinners for multiple reasons, so I find it silly to focus on one particular lifestyle to demonize and criticize. The gays deserve a break.
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~Hosea 6:3~
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Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:38 am
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Snoink says...



Christians believe that they are more than just a mass of chemical reactions. So. Yeah. As much as I love chemistry, that argument is probably not going to work, if you're aiming to convince. XD
Ubi caritas est vera, Deus ibi est.

"The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the Master calls the butterfly." ~ Richard Bach

Moth and Myth <- My comic! :D







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