...the day of action, my bag was checked and I had to stay on line for two hours because someone named 'The other 99%' called in a bomb threat.
Yeah, it's a great cause and woop-de-doo, go revolutions and people standing up for what they believe in, but OWS people are annoying for those who don't really care.
tr3x wrote: Do you have some any legitimate criticism rather than "they're annoying, make them stop?"
Do you have some any legitimate criticism rather than "they're annoying, make them stop?"
"America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves. To quote the American humorist Kin Hubbard, “It ain’t no disgrace to be poor, but it might as well be.” It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor. Every other nation has folk traditions of men who were poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and therefore more estimable than anyone with power and gold. No such tales are told by the American poor. They mock themselves and glorify their betters. The meanest eating or drinking establishment, owned by a man who is himself poor, is very likely to have a sign on its wall asking this cruel question: “if you’re so smart, why ain’t you rich?” There will also be an American flag no larger than a child’s hand – glued to a lollipop stick and flying from the cash register.Americans, like human beings everywhere, believe many things that are obviously untrue. Their most destructive untruth is that it is very easy for any American to make money. They will not acknowledge how in fact hard money is to come by, and, therefore, those who have no money blame and blame and blame themselves. This inward blame has been a treasure for the rich and powerful, who have had to do less for their poor, publicly and privately, than any other ruling class since, say Napoleonic times. Many novelties have come from America. The most startling of these, a thing without precedent, is a mass of undignified poor. They do not love one another because they do not love themselves."
Jas wrote:Honestly though, they are a nuisance for people living and working in New York. I can't go on the subway without protesters screaming and blocking up the area. The trains are slower and on the 17th, the day of action, my bag was checked and I had to stay on line for two hours because someone named 'The other 99%' called in a bomb threat. Yeah, it's a great cause and woop-de-doo, go revolutions and people standing up for what they believe in, but OWS people are annoying for those who don't really care.
Jas wrote:Nope. :]
A wonderful side effect of this movement has been the realization that if you're going to protest in America, expect to be pepper sprayed, beaten and arrested. I think a lot of Americans took for granted the idea that it's a place where freedom of assembly and press are sacred. I know I did. The response to the protests has made it clear that the police protect the current power structures, not the public. As a result, the public gets only as much freedom as those in power want the public to have.
I hope that sometime soon the protests will break up smoothly and not devolve into a lingering radical group that overstays its welcome in the public mind. OWS has largely accomplished what it needed to do, although there is a little more it can achieve. Once that has been done, it will be time for it to disappear and a new group of leaders in arts, education and politics to emerge and start working towards concrete solutions for giving the middle and lower classes the respect they deserve.
Lad dear, that's nearly offensive in the light of the Arab Spring. Life sucks and then you die, but don't expect any pity from me when you have a couple people getting shoved a little harder then they're used too. In Libya, from the beginning of the regime in February it is estimated that there are somewhere between 10,000 and 15,000 dead in the name of regimes that are truly oppressive and corrupted. Are you willing to set yourself on fire in front of some large corporation building to protest the inequality of your position? Maybe you are, but it doesn't have quite the same effect as it had in Tunisia.
I'm curious about what level of mistreatment you consider worthy of your caring. Will you care if a peaceful protester is pepper-sprayed? What about beaten? Or maybe if they're beaten so hard their spleen ruptures? If that's not horrific enough to be worthy of your interest, maybe a fractured skull from being shot in the head with a tear gas canister is. Or maybe you need death to care? How many need to die before a people are reasonably allowed to complain about their government? 1? 100? 10,000? I'm not trying to be obnoxious, I'm actually curious. How much violence is enough that you'll say, "ok, this is wrong"?
Kamas wrote:No need to double blade your argument, I never said I didn't care. Ignoring harm on people is unnecessarily cruel, I just feel it's hard to take the concerns of OWS concerning police corruption seriously with the backdrop of the Arab Spring. I understand there are missteps that have been made and I certainly don't think the fact someone only broke a bone therefore should be disregarded.
The video is shocking. (See it here.) A line of students sits on the ground, heads bowed. A police officer dressed in riot gear walks up to them, holding a pepper spray gun. He theatrically raises his arm, as if about to carry out an execution, and presses the trigger. A foul-looking orange spray shoots out.Methodically, deliberately, he walks to the end of the line, saturating each student. He might as well be casually spraying bug spray. When he reaches the end he begins walking back in the other direction, spraying each of them again. The students huddle in obvious pain. People in the crowd nearby gasp in shock and began chanting, "Shame on you! Shame on you! Shame on you!"This event is powerfully symbolic. It is about contempt from those in power and the wanton use of force against the powerless.We have seen similar things over and over again in the past few years. We have seen it in banks lobbying for public handouts and then denying relief to millions of exploited homeowners. We have seen it in tax breaks and bonuses for the rich while millions of Americans are out of work. We have seen it in church and university officers abusing children and then covering it up. We have seen it in the censorship of climate science performed in the public interest. We have seen it in the absurd declaration that corporations are "people" and entitled to spend billions of dollars to elect representatives that they will then own. We have seen it everywhere we turn. The police officer is Congress. Our banks. Our clerics.The students are us.If I had to sum up the attitude of America's governing classes in one word, I would say: contempt.We are seeing the beginning of a worldwide movement to fight for dignity and intelligent, collective governance. It is remarkable, the parallels between what we see in Tunisia, in Cairo, in Rome, in Zucotti Park, in Oakland, California, and now at UC Davis.
Furthermore, the process of election to either house or presidency isn't proportionate. That is to say, for a country that claims to be free and pure democracy, some votes just don't mean a damn. Proudly I will assert that New Zealand D) and Germany employ a system that is proportionate to a few percent, votes for a member or a political party directly translate to a percentage of power. This allows minor parties with special interests, namely the greens, Maori party, NZfirst, to determine bills and represent minority groups.
inkwell wrote:Kamas wrote:No need to double blade your argument, I never said I didn't care. Ignoring harm on people is unnecessarily cruel, I just feel it's hard to take the concerns of OWS concerning police corruption seriously with the backdrop of the Arab Spring. I understand there are missteps that have been made and I certainly don't think the fact someone only broke a bone therefore should be disregarded.Could you explain this? I think it's the heart of what you're arguing at the moment, but I frankly don't understand a bit of it.Here's a snippet from a very recent Psychology Today article(I want to draw your attention to the bold):We are seeing the beginning of a worldwide movement to fight for dignity and intelligent, collective governance. It is remarkable, the parallels between what we see in Tunisia, in Cairo, in Rome, in Zucotti Park, in Oakland, California, and now at UC Davis.Is there anything really separating us, Kamas? Borders, sure. But that's about it. I mean, I've seen the videos surfacing from this year's Syrian protests. They make me want to vomit. Don't misunderstand me to say that Americans are struggling against the same severity of abuse. Is it not the same struggle, though?
We are seeing the beginning of a worldwide movement to fight for dignity and intelligent, collective governance. It is remarkable, the parallels between what we see in Tunisia, in Cairo, in Rome, in Zucotti Park, in Oakland, California, and now at UC Davis.
Kamas wrote:Your answer sir. (Slightly graphic, young'uns)So to elaborate, no not the same thing. Not in the least. OWS is fighting what they view to be corruption, but if you're going to say that fundamentally we're fighting the same thing you're barking up the wrong alley. There's a big difference between repression and murder, massacre even, vs. the unfair distribution of money OWS is protesting, as well as the corruption of a few rough and tumble police officers.
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