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This week, we lost a brother.

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Tue May 03, 2011 8:18 pm
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Galerius says...



I'd like to start a debate over whether we should be celebrating the fact that Osama bin Laden is dead.

I'm here to ask you to please stop celebrating. It's un-American and just plain wrong to be happy that someone was killed, even if it was one of the greatest executioners of innocent people in the modern age since Pol Pot. It's not like I'm sad about his death - heavens no! - it's just that I'm sad that people are not sad about his death. Every human life is precious and should be respected equally. That means that bin Laden was equally valuable and a contributing member of society as my high school teachers and the local cops. Those folks celebrating outside the White House were barbaric; if you're happy that an evil man is gone, then there's something seriously wrong with you.

The operation itself was an embarrassment and unconstitutional. Stupid military cowboys. What are we paying these people for? If you think about it, what they did was shoot in cold blood an old man who wasn't even important anymore - I mean, he'd killed loads of people back in the 90s and early 2000s, but honestly who even remembers that. We shouldn't disregard our morals because of that. Personally, if it had been me on that helicopter, I would have armed myself with only tranquilizers, given him a few minutes to pack his belongings, put him in handcuffs, read him his rights, taken a DNA swab and had it analyzed back at the lab, THEN I would have arrested him. Otherwise, justice is not served. Sad to say, this chapter in the War on Terror brings us down to the level of the terrorists.

And think about President Bush, who killed literally billions of people. You who celebrate the fact that we killed bin Laden, think about this: nobody seems to blame Bush for perpetrating essentially a similar series of war crimes. Look how many people the Bush Administration killed through its phony wars. Truly, bin Laden and Bush share roughly equal responsibility for chaos in the world. Both launched attacks that deliberately killed thousands of civilians, both helped to fund and protect a regime that tormented its own people, both condoned beheadings of journalists and distributed the videos to various media, and both openly expressed a desire to rid the world of the Jews (among other ethnic groups).

But what I really hope is that we can now leave Afghanistan and Iraq immediately, since the reason we went there was to find bin Laden. Both countries can go to hell for all I care; their infrastructure may fall apart and ethnic cleansing may ensue but I think that it's worth it, as long as our boys are brought home TOMORROW and no later.

Discuss.




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Tue May 03, 2011 9:01 pm
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Master_Yoda says...



Wow Galerius, if you're serious about this, which I hope you're not, I have lost a great deal of the respect for your logic and reasoning that I have had until this stage.

Galerius wrote:It's un-American and just plain wrong to be happy that someone was killed, even if it was one of the greatest executioners of innocent people in the modern age since Pol Pot.

Please elaborate on what makes it wrong. Is it wrong to be happy that Al Qaeda is down a leader? Is it wrong to be happy that the blood of all those innocents who died in the world trade center has been partially avenged? Is it wrong for the world to know that America will not tolerate terrorism?

Every human life is precious and should be respected equally.

Please explain how the life of a mass murderer is precious. And if you truly believe that each life is precious, you should be happy that a great deal of human lives who might have been endangered are now a little more secured. This statement of yours seems ignorant and requires a lot of justification.

That means that bin Laden was equally valuable and a contributing member of society as my high school teachers and the local cops.

No, the teachers and cops are builders of life, bin Laden valued the life of others zero. Heck, he even used his wife as a human shield.

Those folks celebrating outside the White House were barbaric; if you're happy that an evil man is gone, then there's something seriously wrong with you.

I profess to sharing a similar sentiment about people who are not happy.

If you think about it, what they did was shoot in cold blood an old man who wasn't even important anymore - I mean, he'd killed loads of people back in the 90s and early 2000s, but honestly who even remembers that.

Firstly, they offered him to surrender. Secondly, the children and parents and brothers of those who died in the twin towers remember that. Very clearly. So to do the members of Al Qaeda who hold him an inspiration for their acts of terror.

We shouldn't disregard our morals because of that.

We shouldn't disregard our morals and allow murderers to threaten the lives of our people. But nevertheless, the forces pulled off a controlled mission in which they gave him whatever opportunities to surrender that he deserved.

Personally, if it had been me on that helicopter, I would have armed myself with only tranquilizers, given him a few minutes to pack his belongings, put him in handcuffs, read him his rights, taken a DNA and had it analyzed back at the lab, THEN I would have arrested him. Otherwise, justice is not served.

Because justice is defined by arrest and generic legal process. Yes, all of our laws are justice. Tell that to the dead bodies of those previous people who died unjustly from the death penalty. Tell it to the people who never did a thing wrong, yet due to their bad lawyers have a life in prison. Justice is a big word to throw around so casually. Your opinionated view on it is in no way objectively binding.

Sad to say, this chapter in the War on Terror brings us down to the level of the terrorists.

Not true. We do not target innocents.

And think about President Bush, who killed literally billions of people. You who celebrate the fact that we killed bin Laden, think about this: nobody seems to blame Bush for perpetrating essentially a similar series of war crimes.Look how many people the Bush Administration killed through its phony wars. Truly, bin Laden and Bush share roughly equal responsibility for chaos in the world. Both launched attacks that deliberately killed thousands of civilians, both helped to fund and protect a regime that tormented its own people, both condoned beheadings of journalists and distributed the videos to various media, and both openly expressed a desire to rid the world of the Jews (among other ethnic groups).

Bush was trying to protect innocents and kill terrorists in the process. Bin Laden was trying to kill innocents and protect terrorists in the process. If you cannot tell the difference between the danger of letting Bin Laden loose that is not present while Bush is around, you might want to join Al Qaeda. Please also link me to your resource that highlights Bush's proclamation that he wanted to rid the world of Jews.

But what I really hope is that we can now leave Afghanistan and Iraq immediately, since the reason we went there was to find bin Laden.

We went there to fight terror. Bin Ladin was but a cog in the machine.

Both countries can go to hell for all I care; their infrastructure may fall apart and ethnic cleansing may ensue but I think that it's worth it, as long as our boys are brought home TOMORROW and no later.

Because the Muslim innocents in Afghanistan are far less important than us Americans. You yourself say:
Every human life is precious and should be respected equally.
Furthermore, even if we were more important, exiting immediately would allow opportunity for the Taliban to regroup and pose greater damage to our own lives.

Discuss.
[/quote][/quote]
There is no discussion to be had, and my only purpose in responding was to underline the flaws in this argument for those too naively brainwashed by the media to discern them themselves. I seriously hope that this was just an attempt to stir up trouble by you playing devil's advocate. If so, I have not lost all of my respect for the human intellect.
#TNT

The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
-- Robert Frost

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Tue May 03, 2011 9:24 pm
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SparkToFlame says...



Dear lord.
I acutally laughed through out this whole thing.
well, you continue singing praises of bin laden.
I am going to go thank the lord that evil man is dead.

I agree with Master Yoda his points are direct and NOT biased.
I'm not even going to repeat it.
Just know that you have a wrong veiw of the world.
~Pointe
"There's no yellow bricks to follow back and run from that disaster...
Believe me...
There's no place like home."


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Tue May 03, 2011 9:27 pm
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Jas says...



Personally, I agree and disagree with you, Galerius.

Bin Laden was a human being, who should have been treated as one, and the way they killed him then dumped him in the ocean, like he was toxic waste, was disgusting. I also believe the way that people partied in the White House was really exaggerated and terrible.

But.

But, I think that what you said 'I mean, he'd killed loads of people back in the 90s and early 2000s, but honestly who even remembers that.' is wrong. I and millions of other people who watched the Twin Towers fall remember it. The daughter of a stock broker who was blown to pieces remembers it. The wife of a fireman who died trying to save lives remembers it. And finally, the innocent people who did nothing wrong but wake-up in the morning to go to work but ended up being frightened out of their minds and who are now probably traumatized forever remember it.

Also, when you said 'Every human life is precious and should be respected equally.', I agree with you. However, 'That means that bin Laden was equally valuable and a contributing member of society as my high school teachers and the local cops.', no. Bin Laden wasn't an American. He wasn't a citizen, had no allegiance to this country and it's pretty obvious that he wished only the downfall of America. He shouldn't have been read his rights, because he's not American and therefore, does not have the rights that Americans have.

I basically agree with everything else, I don't think they should have outright killed him, maybe DNA tested him and put him in prison to really have time to repent and remorse and feel guilty and terrible and really understand what he did.

I don't agree or disagree with the Bush stuff. I frankly don't care about Bush at all. He's unimportant in my life and I think, in this discussion.
Last edited by Jas on Tue May 03, 2011 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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apologies that roll of my tongue, smoothquick, like 'r's
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Tue May 03, 2011 10:10 pm
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XxMattxX says...



It's not like I'm sad about his death - heavens no! - it's just that I'm sad that people are not sad about his death.

Just thought I'd use the overall irony of your statement to prove my point, here.

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Tue May 03, 2011 10:15 pm
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Destiny110 says...



He didn't care that he killed loads of people in 9/11! he didn't care about each and every precious human life in those buildings and around them! Why should we care about him? After all he was an evil man that killed thousands! He deserved to die! And I frankly think that each and every single marine that was in that mission deserves a medal! I'm not even American, but I still wanted to see that evil *bleep* dead!
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Tue May 03, 2011 10:17 pm
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Jas says...



Well, no, Destiny. That brings us down to the terrorists levels. I'm not pleased that he's dead. I'm not going to attend 'YAY OSAMA'S DEAD!' parties.


I'm relieved that he can't do anything else. I'm leaving the judging up to God.
I am nothing
but a mouthful of 'sorry's, half-hearted
apologies that roll of my tongue, smoothquick, like 'r's
or maybe like pocket candy
that's just a bit too sweet.

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Tue May 03, 2011 10:44 pm
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XxMattxX says...



Understood.
Why waste your life rejoicing over a man's death?
Yeah- what he did was wrong but even the thought of him is not worth my time.

I'll start mourning when a press release comes out proving that he felt sorrow, shame, an remorse for what he did.Until then, I'm indifferent. Death isn't our realm to rejoice over, but I'm releaved that a key terrorist leader is gone.

I think we shouldn't waste time on his death so much ad debate whether or not this will affect terrorism positively, or negatively. That's more interesting.
But no- he isn't my Brother.

And it is all in God's hands, now.
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Tue May 03, 2011 10:50 pm
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Skins says...



I thought it would be interesting to see a Brits view on all of this. *Shrugs*

Do I think they have the right to be happy he's dead? Yes.

People have the right to be happy about Bin Laden's death, or at least some people do. Coming from Britain, even I knew someone who died in the 9/11 bombings. Admittedly, I didn't know them all that well, but it got me emotional. I can't--I don't even want to--imagine what it must have been like to have lost a brother, a mother, a father, a partner e.t.c. in the incident. If someone as close as that to me would have died under the hands of a man that has been missing for 10 years, I'd be damn happy if I found out he'd been stopped. I'd have to be mental not to be.

Does this mean people should celebrate his death? No.

I think it's fine to feel closure and to feel happy about Bin Laden's death, but to outwardly celebrate isn't right. In the end, he was human, and he did have the rights to a life. A life that should have been spent locked up, in my opinion, but still a life. You could argue that's more barbaric than killing, but that's just my look on things. To murder a man for, well, murder is a bit hypocritical if you ask me. Sure, feel glad about it on the inside and express your feelings with some close friends and family members, but don't go around bragging about how splendid it is that he's dead, I guess.

Do I think he deserves to be dead? Yes and no.

I don't believe in any kind of death penalty at all, but for someone like Bin Laden, it's a struggle to really feel like he didn't deserve it. So many people were killed, but not only that. So many people lost others, and they're still having to live through each day knowing that they'll never get their child, their mother, their father e.t.c. back, and it's all because of the directions of one man. I'll hold my hands up and say that I haven't researched this, but I can almost guarantee that there have been a great deal of suicides because of what happened in 9/11. That's more deaths to add to the total. Nonetheless, I will stick by what I believe is right and say that he shouldn't have been killed. Not so suddenly, for sure. One thing I will say though is that if Bin Laden didn't deserve death, then he deserved the next worse thing.

In the end, all I know is that there are millions of Americans who have finally found closure in their lives, a closure of something that never should have happened ten years ago. If you ask me, that's a wonderful thing. The details may not be nice, and I may not agree with all of them, but the result of Bin Laden's death and how it has an effect on people's lives is a sigh of relief. A damn big one at that.
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Tue May 03, 2011 11:09 pm
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BigBadBear says...



We should be relieved he's dead. Not glad.

-Jared
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Wed May 04, 2011 3:05 am
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fireheartedkaratepup says...



I don't think we should rejoice in his death.

To me, he was kinda a moot point, after a while, but maybe that's just cuz I don't follow what's going on very closely.

I don't think the war is pointless. It may have been misguided, but I think was well-intentioned. (AS well-intentioned as a war can be, at any rate.)

I liked Bush. He sent me a picture of his dogs and a letter for my 16 birthday. (My dad asked him to, but still.)
Seriously though, I do kinda like him. I roll my eyes at his ardent fans, but he did his best, and took a lot of flak for that.

And he was strong in our crisis.

And I'm tangenting on something someone said wasn't relevant.

Anyway, it's basically that I agree and disagree.
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Wed May 04, 2011 6:02 am
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PenguinAttack says...



Oh, Gallyallyarous. I see what you did there.
I like you as an enemy, but I love you as a friend.




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Thu May 05, 2011 4:29 am
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Kamas says...



Image
"Nothing is permanent in this wicked world - not even our troubles." ~ Charles Chaplin

#tnt




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Persy says...



^ best argument ever




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