Young Writers Society

Home » Forums » Community » Serious Discussion and Debate

Should the opportunity Separate Schooling....

Post a reply
User avatar
196 Reviews



Gender: Female
Points: 3308
Reviews: 196
Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:14 pm
OverEasy says...



I have been pregnant, so as for that argument...

I feel quite qualified to comment on what it feels like, and what I needed when I was pregnant. I can't speak for every pregnant girl out there, but I know what I needed. I needed safety, comfortability, family, and support. I needed to be surrounded by what I knew and those that loved me.

There is no way to tell just *who* the father could be especially in cases where-
a.) the family would rather that it be kept secret
b.) the male sin question refuse to take a DNA test
c.) cases where the girl leads a very promiscuous lifestyle


What happens when the family of the mother would rather be kept secret? I mean, I am certain that some of those families aren't exactly proud if their daughter... The woman gets to live with the proof of her mistake on her stomach, while the guy gets to walk away and say "Oh, I'd like to keep my mistakes a secret." I don't really see how that's not a double standard.

As for the whole "well the father could refuse a DNA test" argument, I am fairly certain that legally you can't. If you are the father you have a legal obligation to the child you helped create, and I don't believe you can refuse any DNA test conducted. I could be wrong on that point, but I am pretty sure that I'm not.

On the note of promiscuity, I am a bit offended. I have to ask, who cares how promiscuous this girl was? She still has legal rights to support from the father, no matter how many men could possibly be him. If a DNA test is necessary to figure out who he is, so be it. However, he should absolutely still be held to the same standard that she is.

You talk about double standards between men and women as if it's an acceptable part of society. It is a part of society, sure, but that doesn't mean that it's right and it doesn't mean that it's accepted. I, for one, hold men to the same standard that I hold myself. If I were to get pregnant, my boyfriend would be in just as deep as I was. That's how it works.
"I’m selfish, impatient, and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I’m out of control, and at times I’m hard to handle. But if you can’t handle me at my worst then you sure don’t deserve me at my best." --Marilyn Monroe




User avatar
336 Reviews



Gender: Female
Points: 565
Reviews: 336
Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:37 pm
Jas says...



No. That's like saying, 'Do you think that fat people should be schooled in seperate facilities?'

It's ridiculous.
I am nothing
but a mouthful of 'sorry's, half-hearted
apologies that roll of my tongue, smoothquick, like 'r's
or maybe like pocket candy
that's just a bit too sweet.

~*~




User avatar
450 Reviews



Gender: Female
Points: 16275
Reviews: 450
Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:43 pm
Dreamwalker says...



Personally speaking, and I haven't had the chance to read all the posts, but I would have to say that it would be, in all honesty, a pretty alright idea.

Its not segregation in that manner. Its a way of which teenage women get that privacy that they wouldn't rightly get in highschool where teenagers judge and nit-pick and make life horrible. That line will give these girls a safety net so as them not to have to deal with others. You made a mistake, yes, but you shouldn't have to go through the hell that ensues because of it.

Separate schools could also be an opportunity for girls to learn more about what they will need to know for upcoming parenthood. That way they'll be ready instead of scared and confused when it all should happen.

I'm thinking it should be a choice. If you have good friends and a good family base around you whereas you wouldn't have to fear the problems that may arise with teenage prejudice, then go for it. Go to public schools. If anything, its subjecting fellow teenagers to what they should understand and learn from. If you're anything like me, you learn more from observation than you would of your own mistakes. So, it could be good for boths sides.

I will say, though, that it would be a good choice to have. If I was a pregnant teenage girl, I would hate going to school. I would loath it with a passion, but thats because my friend base is so much smaller than the base of people who would call me 'slut'. I don't know where anyone else lives, but where I come from, teenagers are horrible.
Suppose for a moment that the heart has two heads, that the heart has been chained and dunked in a glass booth filled with river water. The heart is monologuing about hesitation and fulfillment while behind the red brocade the heart is drowning. - R.S




User avatar
140 Reviews



Gender: Female
Points: 6098
Reviews: 140
Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:55 pm
View Likes
XxMattxX says...



I will say, though, that it would be a good choice to have. If I was a pregnant teenage girl, I would hate going to school. I would loath it with a passion, but thats because my friend base is so much smaller than the base of people who would call me 'slut'. I don't know where anyone else lives, but where I come from, teenagers are horrible.


Exactly.
It'd be better that they have an option for a specialized school, than stop going all together.
Then, in the future, they wouldn't be able to (properly) provide for their child.

Its not segregation in that manner. Its a way of which teenage women get that privacy that they wouldn't rightly get in highschool where teenagers judge and nit-pick and make life horrible. That line will give these girls a safety net so as them not to have to deal with others. You made a mistake, yes, but you shouldn't have to go through the hell that ensues because of it.


Again, exactly my point.

Separate schools could also be an opportunity for girls to learn more about what they will need to know for upcoming parenthood. That way they'll be ready instead of scared and confused when it all should happen.


Can I get an Amen?


I really don't get why everyone is so against this idea. It's not forced( which seems to be the #1 misconception), but hating even the idea of the option seems ... I don't know... wrong. Just wrong.
They need to have an option.
better than suffering through high school or not even going at all.
I think that's more embarrassing than going to a separate, more intimate and specialized learning facility.

I'm thinking it should be a choice. If you have good friends and a good family base around you whereas you wouldn't have to fear the problems that may arise with teenage prejudice, then go for it. Go to public schools. If anything, its subjecting fellow teenagers to what they should understand and learn from. If you're anything like me, you learn more from observation than you would of your own mistakes. So, it could be good for boths sides.


Bets (unbiased) argument I've heard all day.
Really nice( and true.)
The "learn-from-their-mistake' idea could work, but i think it has more risks than benefits.
Depends on how mature the student body is.
And what I've seen just won't cut it.
Sorry.
Solvalery/GeeLyria Fans
Link




User avatar
450 Reviews



Gender: Female
Points: 16275
Reviews: 450
Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:00 pm
View Likes
Dreamwalker says...



I'm glad you agree! And yeah, it really could be a hit or a miss. It really just depends on the sutuation, I suppose. I, myself, would definitly prefer to have a seperate school. Maybe its the idea of having to seperate from your friends that scare so many people. I don't really know. All I can say is that I know what I would choose and its saddens me that girls aren't really given that choice.

But, as it goes, I'm out of highschool and I don't have a baby so I fear nothing of that general sort!
Suppose for a moment that the heart has two heads, that the heart has been chained and dunked in a glass booth filled with river water. The heart is monologuing about hesitation and fulfillment while behind the red brocade the heart is drowning. - R.S




User avatar
106 Reviews



Gender: Male
Points: 3023
Reviews: 106
Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:30 pm
View Likes
Nightshade says...



I really don't get why everyone is so against this idea.

I'm guessing it's because the original post (which defines the debate) is so offensive and poorly justified. It seems that quite a few people are in favor of offering optional programs for pregnant teens. So far, no one has really fought you on that point. What Kamas, Overeasy, and Aurora all disagreed with were Contentions #1 and #2 from the original post, a disagreement which I think Aurora justified best when she said:
Most of the original contentions are, frankly, offensive so I can see why Kamas and OverEasy were bothered. "Wrongly influences other students"? There are many, many aspects of individuals which can "wrongly influence" other individuals, so segregation on those grounds is unfeasible. And whoever said a pregnant girl can't serve detention for sassing the teacher? There's nothing physically taxing about a detention or any of the other traditional punishments. Sounds like your teachers need to toughen up! If those pregnant girls are using their unborn children as excuses to be lazy, someone needs to give them a cold, hard reality check and there's no reason a teacher can't do that.


Bets (unbiased) argument I've heard all day.

I find it interesting that the only argument you characterize as unbiased also happens to be the one that agrees with you.




User avatar
140 Reviews



Gender: Female
Points: 6098
Reviews: 140
Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:42 pm
View Likes
XxMattxX says...



Either way, I've cleared up what I meant by this whole topic.
It may have been flawed in the way it was written or stated but my point is still on the table.
We should make the option available.
So let's try to stop picking on old scabs and let this debate move forward.

Again,I've moved over to my mobile device- so I won't be on here for a while.

Have fun debating!
Movin' on...
Solvalery/GeeLyria Fans
Link




User avatar
159 Reviews



Gender: Male
Points: 7146
Reviews: 159
Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:45 pm
View Likes
MeanMrMustard says...



XxJoJoxX wrote:Convince me that I'm wrong.
seriously.
[b]And no one is suggesting that it would be mandatory or forced... So calm down.


I'm not jumping into this debate, but you probably should avoid these statements in the future. In my opinion, the entire discussion died the moment you typed that. Two immovable objects slowly grinding away is pretty boring. Perhaps a hypothetical can be done? Perhaps you could go to a student in your school and present her situation later on here (video interview, etc)? Maybe do a project on it, get a teacher to support you. It would make for interesting points of view between yourself and others. That's all.




User avatar
373 Reviews



Gender: None specified
Points: 48828
Reviews: 373
Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:06 pm
Kamas says...



Welcome to the debating world, where 95% of the population is going to disagree with you.
It's pretty ignorant of you to think the "best" and most "unbiased" argument is the one that compliments yours. Also, you have not, in fact clarified what you meant, you keep changing what you're saying.
My overall issue with your position is the fact that you fail to recognize:

1. The equal culpability of the male.
2. The fact that there are such programs that teach parenting skills, and are readily available rather then dividing these most likely scared and hormonal teenagers from their comfort zone.

Both of which go hand in hand.
Programs like these are everywhere, because in reality, first time parents don't know what they're doing. Neither do these girls. Which is why these programs should be readily available to them through the school, rather then segregating them as a specific group of girls who'll as you put so eloquently: will sass the teacher (and can't be punished), serve as distractions, will wrongly influence students (this one's a killer), and won't learn and will hinder the learning of other individuals in the school.

1. Just because they're pregnant doesn't mean they're the only ones that are going to be rowdy in class. Pregnancy isn't some sort of fuel for unruliness.
2. Punishment is not up to you, rather the teachers. It usually consists of detention or some stern talking too, which is neither physically straining nor harming to the unborn child they're carrying. So I don't see why they can't be punished.
3. What's makes an unruly pregnant girl more distracting then generally someone who doesn't follow the rules in class? I'm sure your school does not consists simply of angels and pregnant teenagers. What about the girls who aren't unruly? What's distracting about them, the fact they have a bulge under their shirts?
4. Wrongly influence other teenagers? You have got to be kidding me right. As you said it's a decision the girl made to get pregnant. It would equally be the decision of the other student body. It's not like they're devilishly trying to worm their way into everyone's minds so that everyone wants babies!
5. I've already addressed the hinderance in education, not going to reiterate myself.

All in all, in your contentions you make these girls look like the bad guys. Males swept under the rug by this so called "double standard in society".
It's equally their fault, the girl just has to live with that decision as a weight in her gut. Why shouldn't the father's equally be sent off to this school to continue their education while gaining the parenting skills.

To be honest, it sounds like an absolute waste of time and money. Whether is comes from the taxpayers or out the pockets of these girls' families themselves because they're not bad, they've done nothing wrong, just pursued their sexuality at a younger age. When the parental support, which seems to me to be the only basis of difference, simply serves as an excuse so that this isn't just: Pregnant girls should go to another school so that we don't have to look at them in a normal school.

There are plenty of opportunities everywhere to get this parental education, whether it is through programs, service centers, or from trusted adults within these girls' lives.
"Nothing is permanent in this wicked world - not even our troubles." ~ Charles Chaplin

#tnt




User avatar
436 Reviews



Gender: None specified
Points: 83069
Reviews: 436
Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:44 pm
View Likes
AquaMarine says...



If a teenage girl is pregnant, then the likelihood is that she is already going to feel scared and separate from her peers. Saying to her 'hey, don't worry, we've got a school for people in your condition' is going to reinforce this for her, no matter whether the schools are compulsory or not. As far as I'm aware, a school's job if a student gets pregnant is to help them as best as they can throughout the pregnancy in regards to their work. The most beneficial thing for them would most likely not be transferring to a 'pregnant girls school' which they will only attend for about 8 months maximum. How many teenage girls do you really think would make the choice to deliberately ostracise themselves from their peers?

Contention 1: It hinders the progression of class transitioning, and wrongly influences other students.

A majority of the time, a good portion the girls( that I've seen) who are pregnant are disrespectful and use their pregnancy as an excuse to sass at the teacher due to the fact that they can't be severely punished.
This serves as a distraction to those of us who are in school daily in order to get our education.


You say there are around 10 pregnant girls in your school, four of which are in your class? In that case, this is a gross generalisation. You're assuming that because the few pregnant girls you know are sassy, the rest are all disrespectful, lazy pupils who ruin learning? I'm sure that's the case with some, but it's also the case with non-pregnant girls too! Heck, if I could just round up all the distracting people in my classes and shove them in a school of their own that would be great, but I can't. I doubt that being disruptive in lessons and being pregnant are two things that go hand in hand.

Contention 2: Allowing them to attend regular public school would wrongly influence other students.

Nowadays, i see how other teens react to finding out that their friend is pregnant.
I see it praised and celebrated and announced in hall ways and used as an excuse to gain favor and privileges that the average student did not receive.


Firstly, you say 'allowing them to attend regular school' - doesn't really fit with the idea of 'this is their choice' does it? Like I said up there, saying to someone that they aren't allowed to go to school with their friends because they got pregnant is hardly the most supportive thing to do in this situation. The way I see it, schools are supposed to be a support network for students in trouble, and what you're suggesting here is that as soon as a student does get into trouble, the support network does not allow her to attend any more and pushes her off to another institution.

Again, you say you 'see it praised', but how many teenagers do you know who have become pregnant? 10 in your school. From what I've seen of people who've become pregnant (which is two examples) there was obviously a lot of support from people, but no-one praised them and it didn't inspire a baby boom!

If you were worried about teenagers becoming inspired to get pregnant, then instead of removing pregnant people, perhaps sex education in schools should be improved to ensure that all students are fully aware of what having a baby would be like and what it would involve. Education is the key here, I think, not removing people.

For example: Sex Ed recently in my school involved a pro-life video centred around a girl making the decision to keep her baby or not. Abortion was painted in the most horrific way possible, and having the child was painted as the best possible thing to do ever. This, in my opinion, is way more dangerous than a pregnant girl because it offers no sense of reality or balance. At least a real-life pregnant person is going through it for real, and can therefore show others what it's really like. (Slightly off topic, sorry. I just like to rant about sex education where possible.)

Contention 3: Having a separate facility for school would allow and integration of basic knowledge and parenting skills.


Yeah, because there are totally no pregnancy classes or anything available for teenagers? Again, my knowledge of this revolves around only a couple of cases, but they found information very easy to come by - I mean, hospitals have support for this kind of thing! Just because a school may not be tailored to pregnant girls doesn't mean that they're going to go into labour thinking 'Dude, when's the stalk going to drop off the kid, then?'. But, seriously, I think that there is a tremendous amount of support around for pregnant teenagers, and they don't need to be schooled separately to gain this information. In addition, if this is a basis for your argument then shouldn't the guys be schooled here as well in order to gain these skills? As said by other people, you've focused entirely on the mothers without fully considering the fact that, by your argument, the fathers should be schooled separately too.

SO they can still provide for their child when they enter society as a fully-functional adult.


A society where not everyone surrounding them is pregnant. Surely a way to better prepare them is for them to start their life as a mother knowing that not every teenage girl is pregnant - they will have to get used to the fact that they're in the minority, and these schools won't prepare them for that.

-Amy
"It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want."

-Spock.


Click if you love cookies




User avatar
1071 Reviews



Gender: Other
Points: 77125
Reviews: 1071
Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:54 am
View Likes
Kyllorac says...



It might interest you to learn that, well into the 1980s, and even into the 1990s, it was not uncommon for schools to "ask" pregnant students to leave. Even in cases where leaving was not required, pregnant students were denied admission into various programs, else forced to attend classes in schools that "accommodated" pregnant teens that their peers were not required (or even considered eligible) to take.

These measures were taken on the grounds that pregnant teens were a bad influence on their peers, that they were somehow morally inferior to non-pregnant teens, and that they were at a social and academic disadvantage due to their pregnancy.

The parallels between this reality and your proposal are uncanny without having to draw any parallels to other forms of segregation.

You might find this paper, written in 1984, to be quite eye-opening.
Screwing with gender since 1995.


There are no chickens in Hyrule.




User avatar
189 Reviews

Supporter


Gender: Female
Points: 3543
Reviews: 189
Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:56 pm
View Likes
tinny says...



I've seen this done as a voluntary measure at schools before.

Most girls here that become pregnant in school drop out after they give birth and end up with no qualifications at all, the idea of these separate facilities is that they encourage the girls to come back after they've given birth and to complete their education, allowing them to gain GCSEs even if they've passed the school-leavers age. They have facilities to look after the children while they get on with learning. The students get an opportunity that they might otherwise have missed out on. It's not just for one school, but rather for an entire area, so they students that go there get to meet others that are in a similar situation to them and form their own sort of support networks along side their education. I've also seen it act as a sort of refuge for those that are given grief about their pregnancy at their regular schools, and leave to the units so they can actually learn in peace.

I'd never really seen pregnant girls act disrespectful towards teachers while I was in school; if anything they were the ones that faced more hassle from other students. When I was at school, if you ended up pregnant you were caught between a rock and hard place; you were considered a whore if you kept the baby and a killer if you had an abortion. Even people that I would have considered to be generally nice people held these very polar views, and there was more than one girl that ended up leaving because other students made her life a misery. It's a bit different now, according to my younger sister.

That said, whenever I've seen measures like these put in they are entirely voluntary. If the girl wants to go along to the unit she can, but if she's happy to stay in regular classes, well that is fine too. I think they tend to be used more often by those that end up pregnant at a time that means they're going to finish school without gaining any qualifications, so the units give them the space and time to catch up with what they've missed, as opposed to just separating them from the rest of the school.
please grant me my small wish; (love me to the marrow of my bones)




User avatar
106 Reviews



Gender: Female
Points: 1386
Reviews: 106
Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:19 pm
View Likes
Funkymomo says...



I think that we need to realize that the cost of a whole new school would be astronomical. Because pregnant girls are farther appart, buses would have to travel half an hour to get to your house! Now say we put one school in every county-that could be a large distance to cover and may not teven have that many people in it. Say we put one in every major city- that leaves a lot of girls one, two, or even three hours from home. If we were to offer this the price could surpass the benefits.

I think it would be a better idea to simply have programs in every town about pregnancy and parenting. the majority of high school students will have a child sometime in their live, so it would help them prepare and it would give the pregnant teens the information necessary to raise a child.

What about once the babies born? I have a limited knowledge of the topic but what about programs to take care of the baby while the moms at school? I think that would be a good idea, it would allow the parents to continue school and get a diploma without having to drop out. Maybe programs that let pregnant teens get together and talk about what they're going through ( which there probably already are).
Light one candle instead of cursing the darkness.