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Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:23 pm
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XxMattxX says...



EDIT: Took down poll( people started just voting, not explaining themselves..)
Convince me that I'm wrong.
seriously.
And no one is suggesting that it would be mandatory or forced... So calm down.
---------------------------------------------



Should Pregnant Teens be schooled In Separate Facilities?


Seriously.
I was wondering what everyone else thinks.
My teacher told my that when she was in high school, they made sure that there was a separate learning facility for teens who became pregnant.

Reason?
I'm guess for -
1.) Moral support
2.) Prevent them from influencing other pupils
3.) It was just frowned upon
4.) To provide education on parenting for first-time parents and single moms
or
5.) As a deterrent.

Resolved: Pregnant teens should be schooled in separate facilities.

As to my opinion- I'm all for it. I go to a public high school, and see many pregnant girls.
I have a few( like, four) in my athletics period( don't ask why, because i don't know) and it serves as a constant setback because we are forced to modified a few of our drills to accommodate the 'growth' within them.

Contention 1: It hinders the progression of class transitioning, and wrongly influences other students.

A majority of the time, a good portion the girls( that I've seen) who are pregnant are disrespectful and use their pregnancy as an excuse to sass at the teacher due to the fact that they can't be severely punished.
This serves as a distraction to those of us who are in school daily in order to get our education.

Contention 2: Allowing them to attend regular public school would wrongly influence other students.

Nowadays, i see how other teens react to finding out that their friend is pregnant.
I see it praised and celebrated and announced in hall ways and used as an excuse to gain favor and privileges that the average student did not receive.

**No, I am not saying that we should stone a girl to death because she went and got pregnant, because at least she is deciding to have the baby and live with the consequences( better than abortion), but I don't think it should be anything to be proud of or praised either.

Now I hear girls discussing that they wan to go ahead and have a kid, because they " want one".
They know that the school can't do anything about it, and everyone else will have to accommodate them and their decisions, even if it's not necessarily fair.


Contention 3
: Having a separate facility for school would allow and integration of basic knowledge and parenting skills.

I don't see the point of sending them to a normal public school if-
a.) they won't learn a majority of what is being taught
b.)They are surrounded by others who have no idea what they are going through= no moral support
c) others are distracted by their actions and may be influenced
or
d.) they aren't being taught basic parenting skills for the upcoming responsibility.

I think it would benefit them better if they were surrounded by those in a similar predicament and received a basic education that would enable them to stay on the path to education( due to the childcare that is provided once the child is born).
And pregnancy couldn't be used as a factor as to whether or not they are able to complete certain tasks, because it would be designed especially for them. SO they can still provide for their child when they enter society as a fully-functional adult.

I think I've covered all of my points, and I'll back them up with research I've found as i go along, but what do you think?
( and none of that "it's their life-their choice" business, please. We need to realize that it affects more than just them and their unborn child.)


** Whether or not is should be government funded is another debate entirely- I just want to know what you think.
Last edited by XxMattxX on Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:29 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:50 pm
Kamas says...



Why don't we then continue this elitist manner of thinking and school people of different ethnicities in different institutions?

A different form of segregation, equally as humiliating.
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Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:08 pm
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XxMattxX says...



This isn't an "elitist" movement.

Why don't we then continue this elitist manner of thinking and school people of different ethnicities in different institutions?

A different form of segregation, equally as humiliating.

And you are comparing apples and oranges here.
A person cannot help or control their race, or gender, or where they are born.

But teenage pregnancy is the result of a choice*. And, whether we like it or not, it affects more than just the them and their unborn child( and the family), but the students that go to school with them each day.
Also- they would receive parental training.. unless you'd rather they stay in a normal public school and miss out on vital knowledge due to the fact that it is "embarrassing" ...
Come on.. the unborn child deserves more reverence than that.

It is not an attempt to humiliate( which can't be controlled- because it is their decision to feel humiliated), but one to give them moral support and education with others who face the same issue- while preventing them from wrongly influencing other students.

Because I highly doubt that high-schooler can fully take care of themself, much less another person.

* except in special cases, like rape.
And less than 5% of rapes actually result in pregnancy .
http://www.christianliferesources.com/? ... icleid=461
http://www.physiciansforlife.org/content/view/492/26/
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Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:31 pm
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OverEasy says...



Personally, I am all out against this idea. For one, you have grouped every pergnant girl together, saying they act the same way, they're disrespectful, etc. However I feel this is a large generalization, and it's not fair to all of them. I am sure, some people behave this way even when they AREN'T pregnant. And I am certain that every pregnant girl doesn't sass teachers and use their pregnancy as an excuse to act badly.

For another, these girls have made bad choices, but how to deal with those choices is a family issue. They have a right to public school like everyone else. I am curious as to how this separate school would work, as I really don't see the government funding it, and I doubt people want to pay for it. Meaning the girls would probably have to have tuition or some such thing to fund the school they're being forced to go to. This idea alone bothers me.

And then, I have to point out the immorality of putting a pregnant girl into a separate school, but not the boy that impregnated her. I think the double standard here is a bit ridiculous, to be honest. Both of them made bad choices, so if there is going to be punishment, which I feel your schooul would be, then both should have to suffer through it.

Lastly,(and this is strictly opinion) you seem to forget that these girls are just people. Sure, they probably aren't the best role models, but that doesn't mean if you push them into a corner they go away. Especially since teen pregnancy is being so glorified by the media. Shows like Teen Mom, and every other teen star is getting knocked up... teen pregnancy is everywhere, and I doubt it's going away any time soon.

Not to mention, They are probably terrified, hormonal, and everything else that pregnancy brings, separating them from everything they know, they're friends and teachers and comfort zone... to me it seems unneccessarily cruel. I know girls that made the choice to go to a different school after getting pregnant, but it was their choice. Stripping the decision from them and forcing them away doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me
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Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:50 pm
XxMattxX says...



For one, you have grouped every pergnant girl together, saying they act the same way, they're disrespectful, etc. However I feel this is a large generalization, and it's not fair to all of them. I am sure, some people behave this way even when they AREN'T pregnant. And I am certain that every pregnant girl doesn't sass teachers and use their pregnancy as an excuse to act badly.


This was what I said...
A majority of the time, a good portion the girls( that I've seen)...

I didn't say all.
Neither did I generalize.

For another, these girls have made bad choices, but how to deal with those choices is a family issue. They have a right to public school like everyone else. I am curious as to how this separate school would work, as I really don't see the government funding it, and I doubt people want to pay for it. Meaning the girls would probably have to have tuition or some such thing to fund the school they're being forced to go to. This idea alone bothers me.


Sure, but not if that would hinder others from schooling, also.
And I'd bet that the public would much rather pay for a school promoting responsibility and proper parenting for young moms who haven't yet finished high school than for a public schooling system that may not have been functioning as it should due to the fact that the education is generalized and is not set for the individual and their individual conditions..


Not to mention, They are probably terrified, hormonal, and everything else that pregnancy brings, separating them from everything they know, they're friends and teachers and comfort zone... to me it seems unneccessarily cruel. I know girls that made the choice to go to a different school after getting pregnant, but it was their choice. Stripping the decision from them and forcing them away doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me


Hold up-... You are making it seem like I want them to go to prison. Waay out of proportion, here.

Is stated that it would be a separate building, yes. But they would be surrounded by those who also are going through the same issue and would be able to receive skills on parenting and a positive environment( free of condemnation) that's provides support for them.
This isn't a hostile environment and neither are we going to stone them for what happened- we are just ensuring that they get the sill they need to actually take care of their child.

Stripping the decision from them and forcing them away doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me


And yet again, I didn't say it would be forced. I just want the option to be readily available and more institutions like this to be set up.
And it could be legally recommended/enforced in special cases.

If you think I'm being cruel and harsh and all that good stuff- just check out this actual example of the actual website for a school for pregnant and parenting teens.

http://www.pollyfox.org/

Does that look cruel to you?
And check out the testimonials...
http://www.pollyfox.org/girltalk.html

I hardly call those girls terrified, hormonal, or emotionally distraught.

But you've made some good points ;).
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Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:00 pm
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OverEasy says...



The way you phrased it certainly made it seem as though you wanted them to be forced to go to the other school, so that was how I read the situation. I didn't see anything about this being an option for them.

As for them hindering your schooling, other than the gym class, I fail to see how they are affecting you at all. Or anyone else for that matter.
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Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:06 pm
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Kamas says...



Sure, but not if that would hinder others from schooling, also.


See, that's what annoys me so.

As to my opinion- I'm all for it. I go to a public high school, and see many pregnant girls.
I have a few( like, four) in my athletics period( don't ask why, because i don't know) and it serves as a constant setback because we are forced to modified a few of our drills to accommodate the 'growth' within them.


If that's hindered learning, then ask to run an extra lap. Ask to do something different and lead another activity. Take initiative. Don't point fingers and say that your learning is hindered and the girls that are hindering it should be suggested to go to another school.

As OverEasy said, the boys are just at fault, a point you've ignored. Should a separate program be made for their stupidity that teaches them to parenting skills they need to help support the child that is equally theirs as the girl who bears it?
Because they have an unborn child does not mean their intelligence is hindered or excelled in anyway, so academic education wouldn't be influenced in any sort of way. Perhaps the physical, but as I said, it's up to you to take initiative in your own physical fitness, you can't say your learning is hindered when you can easily take it into your own hands.
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Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:12 pm
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XxMattxX says...



The way you phrased it certainly made it seem as though you wanted them to be forced to go to the other school, so that was how I read the situation. I didn't see anything about this being an option for them.


Well, I've cleared that up- so I guess it's resolved.

As for them hindering your schooling, other than the gym class, I fail to see how they are affecting you at all. Or anyone else for that matter.


Really?
-Lessons interrupted in order for them to use the facilities/ or asking around for food( for nutrition, of course).
-Late arrivals to class- and having to repeat instructions as a result.
-A select few that are boisterous and refuse to work or even show up- and the teacher has to spend the whole class getting security to escort them out.
-Emergencies
-Morning Sickness

Now, I know really sweet( and I mean really sweet) young ladies who are pregnant, and I can tell you that we are not doing them any favors by making them go to a regular public school.

It wasn't built for those who were expecting.
-Staircases that are terribly long
-Small and hard-to-access bathroom stalls
-Nurses that are untrained in prenatal care ( in case of emergency)
-Food lacking in nutritional value
-P.E. that is rigorous and lengthy
-Huge classes

...and the list just keeps on growing...
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Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:20 pm
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OverEasy says...



-Lessons interrupted in order for them to use the facilities/ or asking around for food( for nutrition, of course).


I am fairly sure that pregnant girls are not the only ones that have to use the facilities during class. I am also certain that they aren't the only ones that ask for food. By this, every high school student that is hypoglycemic or has bladder control issues should also have a special facility.

-Late arrivals to class- and having to repeat instructions as a result.


Again, I am sure that they aren't the only ones coming to class late, and I am certain that insturctions have to be repeated for more than just them.

-A select few that are boisterous and refuse to work or even show up- and the teacher has to spend the whole class getting security to escort them out.


Then THOSE students only should be either suspended or their parents should be brought in because of their behavior issues. Not to mention, I am also certain that they aren't the only ones that are being boisterous, loud and obnoxious during class. I hate to say this, but welcome to Public High School.

Emergencies


Again by this standard, anyone that has serious health issues should have a separate facility for schooling. Anyone can have an emergency at any time, that's why it is an emergency. Any student with epilepsy, diabetes, hypoglycemia, asthma, or any other serious health problem should have another facility for school because they could have an emergency that could potentially disrupt schooling for others.

-Morning Sickness


I seriously question how their morning sickness is affecting you, unless somehow them excusing themselves to the washroom is now affecting you as well. If they don't make it to the restroom, which is unfortunate, then I apologize.


Still, with the exception of morning sickness, these are all things that could very easily affect any other student at the school.
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Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:24 pm
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XxMattxX says...



As OverEasy said, the boys are just at fault, a point you've ignored. Should a separate program be made for their stupidity that teaches them to parenting skills they need to help support the child that is equally theirs as the girl who bears it?


Umm. no.
There is no way to tell just *who* the father could be especially in cases where-
a.) the family would rather that it be kept secret
b.) the male sin question refuse to take a DNA test
c.) cases where the girl leads a very promiscuous lifestyle.

So, as said before. Society has double standards.
I guy "lays" a girl- and gets praised.
a girl "gets laid" and is called a slut.


We can't always ensure that the male in question takes responsibility. Heck- some adults still haven' acquired that skill.
but we need to do what we can to ensure that the child has a fair opportunity and the female is able to finish her education in the most accommodating way possible.
It's not the prison sentence you make it out to be.
It's not forced- but it should be readily available if necessary.

Should a separate program be made for their stupidity that teaches them to parenting skills they need to help support the child that is equally theirs as the girl who bears it?
Because they have an unborn child does not mean their intelligence is hindered or excelled in anyway, so academic education wouldn't be influenced in any sort of way.


Do you hear yourself?

I didn't say or imply they they suddenly grew "stupid" as you like to call it but the whole educational experience would be harder.
So- is it affected?- I.Think.So.
The environment can't give them the individual attention they and their unborn baby need- so why would they bother trying?
You seem to completely ignoring the fact THEY. ARE. PREGNANT.
It affects them emotionally AND physically.
So- yeah. it would affect EVERY aspect of their life- especially education.
Last edited by XxMattxX on Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:25 pm
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Funkymomo says...



Hmm, interesting question, there's pro's and cons to it. I can see why they'd be sent to a different school, but I also see how that could be bad. The majority of pregnant girls I've met are nice people (for the most part). Pregnancy seems to change most of them somehow. Being in middle school, there aren't many (any) here, (maybe in other places there are) but in the high school there are some pregnant girls that I've met. They seem to be going through a rough time.

In my school, being a small, close together town, most people are very supportive when teens get pregnant. One girl I remember had to move away during her pregnancy to different town in a bigger city. Viewing her facebook, it seems like she had a really hard time feeling accepted and comfortable there. Meanwhile, another pregnant girl who stayed at our school the whole time didn't cause any problems for the other kids and didn't have any problems of her own. So it seems like taking them away from a good school that they're used to may not be the best idea.

In my own school, I don't think separate schooling is necessary. We have a pretty good program set up to help our students. In other schools with more pregnancies and more problems, it could be an option. I think it should still be a choice, but students should have the option if they're really uncomfortable at there school or causing serious problems at school.

Something else- things seem pretty serious at your school, a lot different than mine. If students are really thinking bout getting pregnant just because they "want one" then maybe they should have been listening more in health class. Also if the students are getting out of work in class, disrupting other students, and being bad influences, then they should definitely have the option to go away. The thing is, it is there choice, they're life. If other students are disrupting you enough that you can't learn, then you should go back to eighth grade. Every other student is talking, yelling, laughing, swearing, talking about drugs, and more in school. Please explain how the pregnant girls are worse than this.

I think if there's really many pregnant girls at your school Jojo,( I guessing around ten?) then it could be different from my school. It could definitely be a possibility, but a whole new school system could be expensive and not the best way to deal with the situation.
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Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:37 pm
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XxMattxX says...



I think if there's really many pregnant girls at your school Jojo,*( I guessing around ten?) then it could be different from my school. It could definitely be a possibility, but a whole new school system could be expensive and not the best way to deal with the situation.



Yes, the differences in society do come into play.
Thanks for seeing both sides.
I guess that in a smaller town it would be taken differently.

Nice point. :wink:

Four in my gym class
plus two or three seniors..
and a junior or two.....
* does math*

I'd say at least ten/twelve( that i know of...)

Which is really weird because my school is very high up....
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Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:47 pm
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Kamas says...



Do you hear yourself?


Yea there's an echo in this room.

I didn't say or imply they they suddenly grew "stupid" as you like to call it but the whole educational experience would be harder.
So- is it affect- I.Think.So.
The environment can't give them the individual attention they and their unborn baby need- so why would they bother trying?
You seem to completely ignoring the fact THEY. ARE. PREGNANT.
It affects them emotionally AND physically.
So- yeah. it would affect EVERY aspect of their life- especially education.


Unless you've been pregnant, and have lived out their life, I don't think it's your place to judge what's best for them
It affects them emotionally and physically, yes. But so does puberty, which everyone goes through in high school.
And you're twisting my words, which I'd love to avoid. But, in the sentence above the large one you bolded, I'm referring to the males. Stupidity is a tough term, but it's what you give the appearance of these girls.

The points you've made are completely unfounded, as OverEasy detailed. All points could easily effect any high school student, and morning sickness could very easily be a student who's ill and nauseous which unless your school is Healthy kids R us, is rather common.


Umm. no.
There is no way to tell just *who* the father could be especially in cases where-
a.) the family would rather that it be kept secret
b.) the male sin question refuse to take a DNA test
c.) cases where the girl leads a very promiscuous lifestyle.

So, as said before. Society has double standards.
I guy "lays" a girl- and gets praised.
a girl "gets laid" and is called a slut.


Male dominance ftw. No seriously, if you're going to crucify the women, the males should also be subject to scrutiny. It tends to be obvious who the father could be, unless there is the case of promiscuity or rape. Just because society has this double standard, doesn't mean we have to subject ourselves to it with a cliche description you find in movies and music.
It's not always the case.

We can't always ensure that the male in question takes responsibility. Heck- some adults still haven' acquired that skill.


That's reality, but girls have no choice to take responsibility, they're the ones who have to bear the child, not the male. So it goes back to separating on basis of ethnicity. Yes, it's provoked generally by a decision except in the cases of rape but after that, the girl doesn't have much of a choice does she?

but we need to do what we can to ensure that the child has a fair opportunity and the female is able to finish her education in the most accommodating way possible.
It's not the prison sentence you make it out to be.
It's not forced- but it should be readily available if necessary.


If it's a program to ensure the female learns to take care of their child, there are programs all over the world for parenting. That teaches first time parents how to take care of their child, perhaps what you should focus on instead is how to make these programs readily available to the teenage girls through the school rather then segregating them at the expense of a decision made by the girl herself as much as the boy.
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Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:57 pm
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AuroraOrodel says...



Most of the original contentions are, frankly, offensive so I can see why Kamas and OverEasy were bothered. "Wrongly influences other students"? There are many, many aspects of individuals which can "wrongly influence" other individuals, so segregation on those grounds is unfeasible. And whoever said a pregnant girl can't serve detention for sassing the teacher? There's nothing physically taxing about a detention or any of the other traditional punishments. Sounds like your teachers need to toughen up! If those pregnant girls are using their unborn children as excuses to be lazy, someone needs to give them a cold, hard reality check and there's no reason a teacher can't do that.

The baseline fact here is that being pregnant affects every aspect of life for the woman, no matter her age and it will even more so once the child is born, which is something no one has brought up yet. I see no problem with there being an option for pregnant high school students to earn their education in a modified way if they so choose. This is not to say the work would be academically easier at all. There's no reason for those standards to change, and I don't see anyone suggesting they should. They will still receive the same education to the same standards, but with extra work to learn skills they will need, as has been suggested.

No separate facility is needed, however, I think a motherhood sensitive program/schedule would not be a horrible, elitist idea. If anything, the obnoxious, pregnant-because-its-popular types (which I stress is not all pregnant teens) NEED to learn what they're in for, that it's hard, unglamorous, and HARD (especially if there's no support from the father and/or parents). Even those who are pregnant by accident and not using it to their advantage will need to learn these skills. As for the fathers, IF they have the guts to be responsible for the child (which not all do, but there are exceptions), they should be learning the same skills. Like I said, though, it would be completely 100% optional for both. A program/altered schedule such as this would also have to support these women once the child is born, which becomes a much harder sea to navigate logistically.

The other side of this is that many communities would resist such a program, even one that was a separate facility, on the grounds that it "endorses or supports" teen pregnancy. Don't forget that public schools are run on tax money, and people REALLY like to whine about the moral compunctions of their taxes (especially recently). A lot of communities don't even want to pay for their precious children to learn how to prevent pregnancy, why on earth would they pay to support the effects of that?

Which is really weird because my school is very high up....


I'm sorry...this is just funny. What exactly is the correlation between a "high up" school and how much sex its students have? :smt002
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Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:01 pm
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XxMattxX says...



Unless you've been pregnant, and have lived out their life, I don't think it's your place to judge what's best for them


In that case , you are in no place to say that it doesn't affect them- or than handling a pregnancy in public school is stress free.
So guess it's a wash for both of us ;).

I won't continue on right now- because I have currently switched to a mobile device.
Enjoy debating!
Last edited by XxMattxX on Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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