Young Writers Society

Home » Forums » Community » Serious Discussion and Debate

Over 16: sexuality

Post a reply
User avatar
481 Reviews



Gender: Male
Points: 5954
Reviews: 481
Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:41 pm
Bobo says...



Just because he wasn't yet recognized as Christ (which he was by those who had seen/believed visions about him) doesn't mean He didn't exist yet. We all existed before we were born, and Christ was God's mouthpiece to man since the Fall. And just because some people don't believe in Christ doesn't mean he wasn't there. You can't say that since He wasn't named Jesus Christ in the Old Testament that he didn't even exist, even though he did exist by another name. So either you are using very weird logic or I just don't understand what you mean. And I never said gay people shouldn't be alive, just that it is wrong. Having never been gay myself and not having talked to homosexuals about why they are that way (since I'm afraid to offend them or something), I don't know as much about it as others might, but I really doubt that all of it is natural. In fact, people have found that some of it comes from being traumatized by someone of the opposite sex. But then, if someone is messed up mentally, they aren't accountable for the things they do wrong without knowing it, so...




User avatar
67 Reviews



Gender: Male
Points: 650
Reviews: 67
Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:47 pm
QiGuaiGongFu says...



so lemme get this strait...
your being ignorant... you've admitted your being ignorant, and yet, even though your admitingly having never met a homosexual and talked to them about it, your still making claims that it is a choice??!?!?!?!
here's what you do. find someone you know is gay, and have THEM explain how much of a choice they made.
What your saying borders closely on polytheism. I could understand that christ was part of the same entity before his emaculate conception, i can understand all of us being part of that same eternal entity. but the idea that Jesus was lounging around in heaven before he was born confirms that he holy trinity is not an expression of a singular force, but the literal separation of devine power. please, tell me thats wrong! tell me that you dont believe that fact which would negate the oringinal commandment.
its natural, i assure you, if it werent, then it would not exist in any form in the animal kingdome. as Gal has so adaquately pointed out, it does.
yes, it is true that homosexuality exists in some forms because of mental trauma sustained at a very young age, but so does skitzofrenia, depression, phsycopthea and sociopathea. and yet, all of these things are natural and inherant in everyday human behavior.
yes, all of these things are enhanced by trauma at young ages, however, everyone has something. most people are sociopaths or psychopthats. many people are generally depressed without being clinicly depressed.

My advice to you is that you go and speak to someone you know for a fact is a homosexual. tell them that you don't want to be ignorant anymore, dont want to offend them, and that you would like to know if they think their homosexuality was a choice. i can assure you they will tell you that it was not. nor will they relate their homosexuality to a childhood trauma. they will tell you that they've always been that way, that its just been a way of life to them. that at one point they realized in some fashion or another that members of the opposite sex didn't appeal to them, and members of the same sex did. they might tell you how confused they wer, and how upsetting it was. they might tell you how horrified they were to tell their parents. they might tell you how much people who choose to remain ignorant annoy them, because they think they made some choice to be gay, and accept all this hostility and persecution. they might tell you how much easier things were when people thought they were strait.
Its not some private club, that the members of which choose to join, and work their butts off to get in to. its more like a family. your born into it, whether you like it or not.
For centuries, theologians have been explaining the unknowable in terms of the-not-worth-knowing.
- HL Mencken
Lie together like butt.
Presenting the GFuture, soon to be the Gnow, reality presented by Google.
Welcome to GEarth.
~Baske in the randomness~




User avatar
481 Reviews



Gender: Male
Points: 5954
Reviews: 481
Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:43 pm
View Likes
Bobo says...



I do believe that we were all spirits before we were born, created by God from already existing "intelligences" in space. And I guess to some extent I am polytheist, since I believe that all of us have the potential to become gods, but I do not believe that more than one god rules us, or that Christ or the Holy Ghost are gods. I do not believe in the Trinity, but rather a Godhead, made up of God, the Eternal Father, Jesus Christ, His firstborn son in the spirit and Only Begotten in the flesh, and the Holy Ghost, a personage that can be felt by people all over the world. As for homosexuality, I have nothing more to say, so I'm gonna just drop it and admit my personal ignorance while upholding my faith in God and belief that homosexuality is wrong.




User avatar
574 Reviews

Supporter


Gender: Male
Points: 5939
Reviews: 574
Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:17 am
View Likes
Ego says...



Must every conversation turn to religion Bobo?

Anyway, a couple things to say about Qi's post...

What you said about everyone being a pyschopath or sociopath is not quite correct...everyone shows tendencies of EVERY SINGLE clinically recognized disorders of the mind. However, you must have a certain number of these traits to be CLINICALLY diagnosed, which is the only way to (technically) know if you're sociopathics etc.

TV may tell us that homosexuality and schizophrenia, etc are caused by mental trauma, but that is in a very small percentage of the cases, most of these disorders are cuased my chemical imbalances, etc, as well as a number of them being GENETIC, which, if I'm not mistaken, was what you were agruing for in terms of homosexuality...there have been multiple studies on the brain appearance of gay v. striaght patients, and there is a very distinct difference....(now if only I could find that site to back it up...)


Anyway, Bobo, you think homosexuality is wrong. Go tell that to the millions of gays on Earth. It's like saying a religion is wrong; you can say it all you like, but not everyone will believe it.




User avatar
593 Reviews



Gender: Female
Points: 6841
Reviews: 593
Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:19 am
View Likes
Crysi says...



Not much time, not much to say..

Personally.. I agree with Bobo. Great job defending your faith, by the way. :)

Hunter, if it turns to religion, so what? That's part of the debate. If that's the reason we believe homosexuality is wrong, then why not discuss it? Are you uncomfortable with it? Then ignore it. It's as simple as that.




User avatar
481 Reviews



Gender: Male
Points: 5954
Reviews: 481
Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:09 pm
View Likes
Bobo says...



I don't think Hunter is uncomfortable with it as much as having no respect for religion. He apparently thinks that at least my religion has no standing whatsoever in any argument or discussion. And if gays don't believe my religion, so what? The only reason religion came up in this topic is because I pointed out that the Bible explicitly says that homosexuality is wrong, but everyone is trying to find loopholes and use weird reasoning to say why that doesn't matter to their religion. Basically, what I'm saying is that you can't be Christian (or Jewish or Muslim most likely) and say that being gay is not a sin, since that would be betraying your religion. Of course, these days people seem to think they can make up their own set of beliefs according to what makes it easiest for them to live and not have to change and be better.




User avatar
128 Reviews



Gender: Female
Points: 650
Reviews: 128
Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:25 pm
View Likes
Galatea says...



Not every interpretation of the bible is correct, Bobo. I admire your ability to stand by your faith, but I also believe that a good Christian (or Jew, or Wiccan or whatever) has the ability to question certain aspects of their religion. Especially those (like doctrines of intolerance) that go against the grain of their faith. Just food for thought.
Sing lustily and with a good courage. Beware of singing as if you were half dead, or half asleep; but lift up your voice with strength.




User avatar
8 Reviews



Gender: Male
Points: 650
Reviews: 8
Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:49 pm
MasterChief says...



The bible is a political tool that has been used by many over the centuries.
king james altered his translation to make witch hunting okay.
I heard a description of christianity that i really liked
"Christianity is not a religion; it is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ."
If you want to use the bible to discrimiate homosexuals, convert to judaism so you can use the old testament. Christianity is based on the new testament, jesus saw the errors and wanted to change it so he preached about being kind and loving. If jesus says specifically " homosexuals are evil and sinful, kill them etc..." then use it, don't use your religion as an excuse to persecute people of different lifestyles.
The old testament also said that the disabled are sinful, do you persecute them?
stop picking and choosing the scriptures, there is no middle ground. your either a christian or your not.




User avatar
481 Reviews



Gender: Male
Points: 5954
Reviews: 481
Sat Jan 22, 2005 8:05 pm
View Likes
Bobo says...



So here you are saying that not all of the scriptures are correct, and yet thati I have to follow every single on if I believe in any given one of them. Really, my beliefs are based less on the Bible, which has been translated and misinterpreted many times, but more on modern day revelation and prophetic counsel. The thing that really annoys me, though, is that you seem to think that believing something to be wrong means hating the people who do it. You also seem to be saying that loving people means that anything they do is okay, which is basically the same as saying that murderers shouldn't be sent to jail or even fined. There is sin. If there was no sin, there would be no wickedness, and likewise no righteousness. And without righteousness, there would be no goodness, which would mean no happiness. And without happiness there would be no misery, and without any of these things no punishment, and without such justice, there would be no God, and without God, we would not exist. Believe what you will, but don't tell me what I believe and what I don't believe.




User avatar
145 Reviews



Gender: Female
Points: 5650
Reviews: 145
Sun Jan 23, 2005 12:56 am
View Likes
Tara says...



Galatea wrote:Not every interpretation of the bible is correct, Bobo. I admire your ability to stand by your faith, but I also believe that a good Christian (or Jew, or Wiccan or whatever) has the ability to question certain aspects of their religion. Especially those (like doctrines of intolerance) that go against the grain of their faith. Just food for thought.


exactly. People should look at every little bit of thier religion and see what they truly belive and what they don't. It shouldn't be against anything to change it as you see fit. What's truly right for you really is what's right.

I was a Christian a few years back, and even then I believed that homosexuality was not only just a choice, but as much a choice as heterosexuality.
"You can go a long way with a smile. You can go a lot farther with a smile and a gun." -Al Capone




User avatar
593 Reviews



Gender: Female
Points: 6841
Reviews: 593
Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:10 am
View Likes
Crysi says...



MasterChief wrote:The bible is a political tool that has been used by many over the centuries.
king james altered his translation to make witch hunting okay.
I heard a description of christianity that i really liked
"Christianity is not a religion; it is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ."
If you want to use the bible to discrimiate homosexuals, convert to judaism so you can use the old testament. Christianity is based on the new testament, jesus saw the errors and wanted to change it so he preached about being kind and loving. If jesus says specifically " homosexuals are evil and sinful, kill them etc..." then use it, don't use your religion as an excuse to persecute people of different lifestyles.
The old testament also said that the disabled are sinful, do you persecute them?
stop picking and choosing the scriptures, there is no middle ground. your either a christian or your not.


It seems to me you switch sides with almost every sentence.. Or am I interpreting it wrong? And you're correct, Christianity is not a religion, it is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. HOWEVER.. We use the entire bible, since it's the Word of God. So while you're saying we shouldn't pick and choose the scriptures, that's exactly what you're doing by separating the Old Testament and the New Testament.




User avatar
915 Reviews



Gender: Male
Points: 650
Reviews: 915
Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:56 am
View Likes
Incandescence says...



The Left does not understand the far-reaching implications of legalizing gay marriage. Where do we stop? What, then, is also okay, if we are to permit what was considered taboo for over a millenium or more? The problem with the argument for homosexuality is simple: It exaggerates many points and makes gross generalizations.

One of the more frequently cited reasons in support of homosexual marriage is that the couple will adopt children. First, being married has nothing to do with adopting a child. Second, only about 15% of all homosexuals have adopted children, as opposed to 21% of heterosexuals.

Another reason cited is the alleged loss of rights and benefits. The Constitution, folks, does not grant every citizen equal benefits. It only purports the equality of opportunity, not the equality of results, which is what advocators of gay rights imply and state. The majority of benefits they lose are not ordained by government, but by business, and under the Constitution, also, the government is not to mandate the private business sector.

Legalizing gay marriage would only metastasize into a perennial battle of When Do We Stop? The relativism being shoved down Americans' throats will only manifest itself into leniency and movements that will become grossly obnoxious. Relativism is not only damaging to one's self, but to the society as a whole. Without a moral compass, we are, obviously, amoral creatures. Without morals, or guiding principles, in our lives, what are we but a slovenly plethora of rapists and murderers?

Religion is an essential component of such a debate, because religion, and especially Christianity, is a beacon by which people judge their lives, at least in America. To deny religion from the debate is to take away a core fundamental of one's belief system. In fact, one could even go as far as to say that anything one believes is a religion, under that logic, and so all arguments would be invalid. And what about religions who support gay rights? They, too, should be banned, to level the playing field. This is absurd. Religion is an essential to a debate that is going to trounce the values and beliefs it puts forth. Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and Greco-Roman all oppose homosexuality. These four religions constitute a vast majority of people across the world, roughly 80-85%.

In conclusion, legalizing homosexual marriage would be a devastating attack on a culture that has existed for over a millenium. Marriage, in the United States, is defined as the union between a man and a woman. In nearly all religions, marriage is defined as being between a man and a woman. Only religions that have been around for relatively short periods of time (25-40 years) support homosexuality, and not all do. To be fair, homosexuals do desserve a union, but marriage has and always will be between two people of the opposite sex. Discriminatory? To your fragile, ignorant eyes, perhaps. However, gay men and women have the right to marry a person of the opposite sex and take advantage of those benefits, and that solves the equality of opportunity resolve. Likening this to the Black Rights, also, is futile, because Blacks are born Black, and can do nothing about their situation. Gays may or may not be born gay, and until we know, it is best to assume not, as there is no evidence of such a link, but they can change--a fundamental difference. They can marry the opposite sex. Blacks can not become whites. Whites can not become blacks. Gays can marry a person of their choice. They have the freedom to do with their lives what they will, but there is no concievable reason as to why the rest of the world must then be subverted to a culture they do not approve of.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my shoulders." -Hal Abelson




User avatar
67 Reviews



Gender: Male
Points: 650
Reviews: 67
Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:14 pm
QiGuaiGongFu says...



dude, incan. im not going to read all of that, im not even going to read any of that. lose the profesorial mumbo jumbo, speak english, and cut back a bit, and to that point, im only going to respond to your first sentence. its wrong. entirely. there are no implications of legalizing gay marriage, its the same as heterosexual marriage, only with same sex partners. ther IS NO OTHER DIFFERENCE.

other people:
you said that you use all of the bible. but have you been circumcized as acording to the covenant between abraham and God? Using the bible and honoring its creeds to me fall in the same place.

There is no true faith until you have known what it is to be without it. just as there is no good without bad, the strength of your faith is greatly increased and supported after you have lost and regained it.
The Bishop in omaha had to prove he had gone through crisis of faith before he was allowed to take that position.
For centuries, theologians have been explaining the unknowable in terms of the-not-worth-knowing.
- HL Mencken
Lie together like butt.
Presenting the GFuture, soon to be the Gnow, reality presented by Google.
Welcome to GEarth.
~Baske in the randomness~




User avatar
915 Reviews



Gender: Male
Points: 650
Reviews: 915
Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:22 pm
View Likes
Incandescence says...



For future reference, if you are not going to read an entire argument, do not criticize it, lest you want to look foolish in the eyes of others.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my shoulders." -Hal Abelson




User avatar
67 Reviews



Gender: Male
Points: 650
Reviews: 67
Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:28 pm
View Likes
QiGuaiGongFu says...



i replied to the part i read, no more, no less.
and your stupid little threats of idiocy arent going to help anything.

for your own future referance, your writing is displaying an inferiority complex, and your little comment has further shown this. so if you think your being so smug is making you seem inteligent, all its doing is showing your own low self image. i may not seem like the brightest of people, but at least i can get by with not caring.
so tell me, what ARE you afraid of?
For centuries, theologians have been explaining the unknowable in terms of the-not-worth-knowing.
- HL Mencken
Lie together like butt.
Presenting the GFuture, soon to be the Gnow, reality presented by Google.
Welcome to GEarth.
~Baske in the randomness~