That being said, I have a challenge for you. I, not unreasonably, figure that your position has Biblical grounding. Have you ever read this passage of the bible?
. It eats, it drinks, it moves (a bit). And it can be considered murder. It's alive, right?
Since the bible says nothing explicitly about abortion (abortion didn't really exist back then in the manner that it does now) the bible wouldn't have explicit directions about whether abortions should be carried out or whatever. However, we believe that the bible does contain directions on how people ought to be treated and what a person is.
Attoila: According to my religion, birth control is not allowed. So, yeah. Plan B is not possible for me, lol. So, your logic that you presumed is correct here, though obviously I wouldn't force you to follow it. (Also, the link is just for fun. )
abortion is still a tricky question because of the two questions I posed above a couple of posts ago: 1) when does a human body become a human person, and 2) how much suffering should one human take before it is permissible to kill the living human organism that is causing the suffering?
In contrast, a pro-life stance would say that the government should have the right to regulate a woman's body. This is an intellectual outrage, and a slippery slope indeed.
I agree that this is the crux. Except that 2 depends on a certain answer for 1, so mainly I believe #1 is the real center of the debate - except that I would change its wording to "when do we become humans?" I briefly went into my thoughts on this a few posts back. But mostly I believe that exactly because this question is so hard to answer, that's why they need to be legal. Everyone is going to have their own answer to this question, and they should be allowed to have the freedom to practice what they believe in accordance to it. If we lived under theocracies or governments that did dictate all morals, this would be different.
I understand your response to be: the Bible says a LOT of things, we don't care.
Now, since you brought it up, from a NON-religious standpoint, why do you believe the use of birth control is immoral?
Attolia: Since you want to discuss rather what government can do then I think we should clarify that giving women the choice is the only option. The government here does not have knowledge of personhood in the first trimester and thus backs off. In contrast, a pro-life stance would say that the government should have the right to regulate a woman's body. This is an intellectual outrage, and a slippery slope indeed.
Still, I would argue that, because this question is so hard to answer, that we need to answer it conclusively as a society so we can live with each other better.
Also... er... religion is pretty much a huge dogma, just so you know.
I would like to discuss this philosophically and perhaps sort out our contradictions, but any supernatural claims disqualify an argument, or at the very least end the discussion.
So you would be okay if we conclusively as a society decided it is not murder?
Kit wrote:And you're aware that the dairy and egg industry and the meat industry are one and the same? Are your clothes made in sweat shops? Do you wear leather? Do you wear wool? Do you wear cotton even though it wastes water and polutes rivers? Do you eat organic because of the cost of life? Do you not eat organic because to do so often involves growing more food for the bugs to eat, essentially breeding more bugs and wasting food while people are starving? Do you eat chocolate or drink coffee despite the injustices within the trade? Do you drink tea despite the overpackaging? Do you volunteer and donate money because you are aware that if you witness suffering without doing something about it, you are complicit? Have you ever had medicine or a vaccine tested on animals? Have you ever had detergent or aerosols or toothpaste tested on animals? Have you ever protested the death penalty? Do you travel? Do you have garbage? Do you exhale? There is a cost to every choice we make. Everything has consequences. I'm glad you're vegetarian, it is less hypocritical. The thing is, abortion has been illegal before, it is still in many places, and it doesn't stop people from getting them, it makes backyard abortionists rich and leaves dumpsters full of desperate pregnant women's corpses. It is a terrible death, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.You wouldn't want someone to force you to have an abortion, other people wouldn't want you to force them to carry to term. Judging people in that situation doesn't change the outcome. I've never been pregnant, thank God, I can't even imagine how hard it is to be put in that situation. There are worse atrocities in the world that I actually can do something about.
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