z

Young Writers Society


On Stoics: A General Discussion



User avatar



Gender: Male
Points: 790
Reviews: 2
Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:01 am
troydenite says...



No, not the philosophers, the character type. :p

I was wondering... having a particular fondness for the archetype of the dark, brooding anti-hero who barely speaks at all, is there anyone with any tips on making one who can play to the sympathies of the audience without becoming too tedious or alienating?

I have written several, but they all turned out to be overly dramatic/angst-ridden, to the point of annoying the readers. The current one I have in my head is basically me, thrown into a blender and then forwards several years in time.

Now, proper questions. For discussion, hopefully.

Backstories. How would one create a sob story that actually pulls the heartstrings of the reader? I mean, not in a 'MY PARENTS ARE DEAAAAAAD' way, but more of a subtle manner that defies the standard apathetic response from us jaded readers? There's also the issue of cliche and predictability. How many dead parents have we seen before? Or dead younger sisters, or dead entire families?

Characterization. Has anyone else run into this problem before? There is a point where a person who refuses to talk to the protagonist becomes annoying to the reader, and yet there might be perfectly valid reasons for the brooding person not to talk to the protagonist, just unrevealed ones. It's a very fine line, and quite difficult to pull off perfectly. Thoughts?

Character Development. Some people, like me, actually enjoy dark and brooding characters for their dark and brooding personalities. Scout from Stefan Gagne's brilliant Anachronauts series, for example, had a nice sad backstory and an icy personality, and the badassery to match. He was eventually softened up by his relationship with the lead female. However, if any character stays dark and brooding and mysterious and generally unhelpful forever, it's going to go stale. Has anyone come across the problem where you just don't know how to pull your angster out of his angst in a plausible, sensible way? And if so, how? Through the power of love? Through getting Bright Slapped (hee, Gundam) in the face repeatedly? Through the innocence of a child?

And after someone stops being angsty, what is there left for them to be? My previously mentioned traumatized and completely changed self-insert, in my projected characterization, becomes less despairing due to a sudden realisation that there really is some good in the world. Fast-forward twenty years and he's become a zen-like, calm figure, with a gentle kindness that stems from the immense hardship he's experienced. Cliched? Probably. What about you guys?

Well, that's it for me. You guys can come up with the rest. I'm new to this place, so if I'm in the wrong board or someone else already made a thread for this purpose, you may shoot me and bury my remains in a suitably demeaning place.

Yup.
What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow
Out of this stony rubbish? Son of man,
You cannot say, or guess, for you know only

A heap of broken images
  





User avatar
44 Reviews



Gender: Male
Points: 897
Reviews: 44
Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:14 pm
EmmVeePi says...



"Backstories. How would one create a sob story that actually pulls the heartstrings of the reader? I mean, not in a 'MY PARENTS ARE DEAAAAAAD' way, but more of a subtle manner that defies the standard apathetic response from us jaded readers? There's also the issue of cliche and predictability. How many dead parents have we seen before? Or dead younger sisters, or dead entire families? "

Okay first off I dont know if I can offer a lot as far as overall concepts but a couple of specific ideas that have always intrigued me are a character that was raped/molested as a child. I also like the idea of someone who witnessed a death as a child, not necessarily a family member but just somehow seen an actual murder or something take place. Watching the life leave someones body can have catastrophic psychological consequences on someone, especially a child.

"Characterization. Has anyone else run into this problem before? There is a point where a person who refuses to talk to the protagonist becomes annoying to the reader, and yet there might be perfectly valid reasons for the brooding person not to talk to the protagonist, just unrevealed ones. It's a very fine line, and quite difficult to pull off perfectly. Thoughts?"

A couple thoughts here. First off there is more to a character than dialogue. Remember body language and nuance can make just as much a statement as speech, let your characters communicate to each other and to the reader by more than what they actually speak. Another thing is empathy. Your protagonist knowing the struggles and issues of the this other character and being empathetic could really lift some of the load from just the one character if that makes sense.

" However, if any character stays dark and brooding and mysterious and generally unhelpful forever, it's going to go stale. Has anyone come across the problem where you just don't know how to pull your angster out of his angst in a plausible, sensible way? "

I think this simply comes down to not allowing your characters to be one dimensional. I try to always allow my characters to be at least a little bipolar. Let this guy/girl have an occasional light hearted moment, maybe he/she has a comedic streak. That way you dont have to throw a character from one end of the spectrum to the other all at once. Rather your character was working across the spectrum the entire time and only has to be changed from favoring one side to favoring the other.

Hope this helps.
  





User avatar
1220 Reviews



Gender: None specified
Points: 72525
Reviews: 1220
Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:20 pm
View Likes
Kale says...



Why must a stoic be angsty? Why must a stoic have a tragic past? Why can't a stoic just prefer not to talk to people? And why is it important that your stoic be liked?

Some questions to think about and answer.

Ultimately, it all comes down to justification. If a character has a tragic past, that past had better impact them in significant ways all the time, and not just when it's plot-convenient or as a way to manipulate the readers' emotions. A tragic past must be justified through how it affects the character with said tragic past, and those effects must be consistently shown.

It's also a good idea to emphasize the impact of the past on the character rather than the past itself. Readers don't need to know all the horrible details if the character's reactions and actions bespeaks of horrors so horrible, the character is so haunted by them years later, they dare not speak about them in any detail.

Characters also don't need to develop in particular directions, or any direction at all. If you give a character enough depth and show that depth, readers tend to overlook a lack of character development. You can also develop characters to become "worse" instead of "better", and it's best to go with whatever is most natural for the story. Forcing characters to develop in a particular direction is never a good idea.

Character archetypes are loose guidelines, but how a character fits the archetype and what motivates the character need not be the same across the entire board of that particular archetype. You have stoics that are stoic because they lost everyone they ever loved and are thus afraid to love again lest they lose again. You have stoics who were abused and so mistrust everyone. You have stoics who just happen to have very little to say.

There's quite a range of of characters available within the stoic spectrum, so I'd recommend looking around a bit and seeing if one of the variants works better than the so-often-used-to-the-point-of-being-cliche tragic past garden variety stoic. At the very least, it will be more interesting for your readers to see a non-garden variety stoic.
Secretly a Kyllorac, sometimes a Murtle.
There are no chickens in Hyrule.
Princessence: A LMS Project
WRFF | KotGR
  





User avatar
103 Reviews



Gender: None specified
Points: 451
Reviews: 103
Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:19 am
wordsandwishes says...



Hn... Well, maybe the backstory could be not about being traumatized by something, but rather shame for something they'd failed to do?
  





User avatar
180 Reviews



Gender: None specified
Points: 771
Reviews: 180
Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:24 pm
Cspr says...



Definitely listen to Kyllorac. Brilliant stuff there.

Otherwise, one of my favorite characters done stoic was written by D.J. MacHale. He was part of a television show I watched when I was younger. Basically, he'd grown up poor with a mom, but then had been taken and put into foster care when the bad group he'd been hanging out with had stabbed one of their own. He was then put into a school that was filled with rich kids and ended up isolated with a few of them via field trip gone horribly bad for roughly a month. Think Lord of the Flies, except his personality kept the others, who hadn't dealt with much before, in check. He was often their saving grace, even if he hated it with a burning passion because he didn't even like the people he was with. He talked to some of the ones he grew fonder of, including the child genius in the group, who was treated differently as well.

As you can see, he wasn't just a prop in the story, he helped pull it together, like all of the other characters did. He was dynamic, not static. All of them changed greatly over the course of the month. He also had three good reasons to be as quiet and collected as he could be: he was dealing with a lot (he had no idea what would happen when and if he returned home, did he want to go home?), he didn't like a majority of the other characters and they didn't like him, and he had to keep it together, because even if he didn't like most of the other characters, he couldn't have someone else hurt under his watch.

Each character should feel like a human being. You should think they're alive, you should feel like you know them as well as you know yourself. It's like how the best actors make you think what you're watching is real.

I'd also suggest on reading articles on character building. Instead of focusing on one character that's giving you trouble, maybe research into why he gave you trouble in the first place?

Lastly, as a person with PTSD and who people complain about my lack of communication constantly, you can PM me and ask me questions if you want; however, be polite and understand I may not want to answer all of your questions.

Hope I was helpful.

-Cas
My SPD senses are tingling.
  





User avatar



Gender: Male
Points: 790
Reviews: 2
Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:46 am
troydenite says...



Thank you all very much. Sorry for the belated reply, but I was kind of wrapped up in a number of things - as much as I would like to conjure up another Wall of Text to express my gratefulness, I sadly lack both the time and the mental capacity (tiiiiireeeeed). Anyway, extremely grateful. Really.

Will get back to you with new thoughts/replies/questions when I've sorted things out. Special thanks to you, Cas - although I don't think I'll need to probe that deeply into the matter, the offer is very much appreciated. :)
What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow
Out of this stony rubbish? Son of man,
You cannot say, or guess, for you know only

A heap of broken images
  








cron
All my life I've wanted to be someone; I guess I should have been more specific.
— Jane Wagner