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Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:22 pm
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BenGrange says...



Hi Friends!

This thread is to discuss how to create an effective language. Anyone can create a language, and even easier yet, anyone can create a code for English that sounds like a different language. But if you want it to sound, look, and be good, take a while to read through this thread. If you have questions, ask! I can't promise that I know everything on this subject, but I'll try my best to find an answer to your question!

If you are creating three or fewer languages for your story, try investing a few days to the invention of each language. A week away from your writing schedule is not going to ruin your writing habit. If you know how to do it, creating a language is not very difficult, though it will take some time. I'm writing this up to help you with the know how.

If you are creating several different languages in your story, creating ciphers (codes for English) might be the easier option. We all know that if you focus only on the world building of your story, your story will never get written. So, if your story has more than three new languages that you will often use, codes are probably what you'll want to do. They can still work, and can still be effective. And they can still sound cool.

We'll split up this discussion into two parts. Codes, and creations. We'll start with codes, and go on with creations. If you have anything to say on the subject, let me know!
Last edited by BenGrange on Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:26 pm
Emerson says...



This might not be available for everyone, but if you're trying to invent a language I would suggest taking a crash course in Linguistics, either by getting an intro to linguistics text book, talking to someone who knows linguistics (that's me!) or just browsing online.
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Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:55 pm
BenGrange says...



Thanks, Emerson!
Last edited by BenGrange on Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"If you really want something, no one can stop you. If you don't want something, then no one can help you." ~ James A. Owen
  





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Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:12 am
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BenGrange says...



We'll start off with Codes.

Codes are not a bad thing. Sorry if I made it sound that way before. The truth is that they can be used effectively, if you know how to do it. But they can also be very bad if you don't treat them the right way.

The way we'll go about creating a code language for English (or any other language you know) is the simple letter cipher. Or, in other words, we'll take each letter in the English alphabet and assign it to a different letter.

Let's start off with a bad example. Here's a cipher I randomly came up with:

a = z
b = n
c = g
d = a
e = f
f = r
g = u
h = e
i = w
j = q
k = d
l = n
m = l
n = h
o = x
p = y
q = t
r = s
s = w
t = v
u = p
v = i
w = c
x = b
y = k
z = j

Now, it took me about a minute to create this cipher. There is no structural integrity to it at all. So, let's try putting a sentence together, and see how it looks.

The bird flew above the clouds.
Vef nwsa rnfc znxif vef gnxpaw.

See how that is basically gibberish? There is not a practical way to pronounce half of those words. If that's how your whole language is going to be, half of your language (or more) is not going to make sense. This is where it gets very bad.

Now, what did I do wrong? What's wrong with using that cipher as a language?

Every language has patterns of consonants and vowels that we call syllables. Syllables are formed from combining a cluster of consonants with one or two vowels. Let's look at an English word with a lot of syllables and break it down.

Catastrophe - Ca|ta|stro|phe

This word has four syllables, and you can see the breaks where vowels make the sounds pronounceable. Notice the consonant clusters as well. "Ph" and "str" make different sounds. You substitute different letters in for those ones, and you get a totally different sound out of them. If I insert my bad cipher in for catastrophe, I get this word:

Gzvzwvsxyef. Can you pronounce that? No? Well, your reader probably can't either.

So, the best way to keep the syllable count and pronounce-ability of the language clear and readable, is to substitute vowel for vowel, and consonant for consonant when you create your cipher.

So, let's show you an example of a better type of cipher.

a = i
b = c
c = d
d = f
e = o
f = g
g = h
h = j
i = u
j = k
k = l
l = m
m = n
n = p
o = a
p = q
q = r
r = s
s = t
t = v
u = e
v = w
w = x
x = y
y = z
z = b

Now, each consonant has been substituted for a consonant, and each vowel for a vowel. This is how you keep the structural integrity of a cipher. Let's look at catastrophe now.

Catastrophe
Divitvsaqjo

This word is somewhat pronounceable. I didn't take a lot of time to make this cipher, but you can see that it has already immensely improved from the first one.

There are, however, ways to tell if a language you made up is simply a cipher, or if you've invented it completely. By entering a string of words into an algorithm, linguists can tell that your code uses e for a, i for u, and x for z etc. -- or it will tell them that your language is totally authentic. So, you'll want to give your cipher a bit of a spin by creating rules. Rules are the heart of you cipher. They are what separate your code from English, essentially making it a new language.

Here are a few rules that might help you get creative in inventing rules.

Try creating a cipher (if this is what you want to do for your book), and erase letters from the English language.

For example, if I erase the "s" out of English for my second cipher, the code would look like this:

Ship
Juq

because s no longer exists. We're essentially translating "hip".

Another way to add a spin on your structure is to use a rule like this: each consonant, and consonant cluster located in the middle of the word is erased. So, in a word with several syllables, this shortens the word.

Let's look at catastrophe again. If we take the consonants out of the middle (but leave the ones in at the beginning and end), and insert it into my cipher, we get this word: Diiaqjo. The word has been shortened, and the spin on the language is effective. You won't want to use this on every word, because then you'd only have one and two syllable words in your language.Pick a list of several (if not hundreds of) words to use this rule on, to keep it consistent, but don't use it for every word.

These are good ways to give your cipher a bit of structure. So, give it a go. Create a cipher, substituting vowels for vowels, consonants for consonants, and give it a spin of your own making!

We'll focus on actual linguistics in the next post, and less on substitution. It may take me a while to post it up, because there is a lot of information on this subject! I hope you found this enlightening. :)
"If you really want something, no one can stop you. If you don't want something, then no one can help you." ~ James A. Owen
  





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Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:47 am
BenGrange says...



Before I move on to creating new languages, I would like to talk about consonant clusters.

Clusters are common in all languages. In English, we have clusters like "sh", "sch", "ng", "st", "str", "br", "ch", "th", and so forth. There are hundreds.

Whether you are making up a brand new language, or creating a code, this is going to be vital. Consonant clusters need to be pronounceable! If you have a cluster that goes like this: "gwrt", your reader is not going to have any idea how to read or pronounce that, and it will slow your story down. So make sure the clusters flow nicely. Use clusters already in existence - this is not a bad thing.

Let me point out one more thing before I end this blurb. Clusters of two letters are easily pronounceable, and you don't need to worry too much about them. However, if you are creating a code, locate the clusters with three or more consonants, and see how you can swap the letters to make them still pronounceable.
"If you really want something, no one can stop you. If you don't want something, then no one can help you." ~ James A. Owen
  





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Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:10 am
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VampireSenshi says...



YES! I'VE FINALLY FOUND ANOTHER CONLANGER!

- YES!!! Yes...

Where have you been? I've been waiting so long to meet you! :D

Thank You for existing anyways, My name is Vamp - and I'll be around here more.
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Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:21 am
BenGrange says...



Thanks for the posts. :)

So, the things we've gone through so far have been extremely basic. There are so many aspects to creating a language, and I doubt we'll cover them all in this topic. Hopefully we will. But let's move on, so we can start learning.

Before we move on, however, I would like to note that I can't take credit for everything you are about to read. I've attended seminars, studied languages, and read extensively on the subject. I'm merely relaying the information I've been given.

So, on with creation.

The first thing we need to understand is that every language has three integral parts. If you skip out on even one of these parts, your language will have a gaping hole. The three parts are Sound, Structure, and Meaning. Every syllable has a sound, every word has a meaning, and every sentence has a structure.

We've focused a bit on sound already, but I want to go deeper into it. Let me reemphasize the importance of pronunciation. If your reader can't read it, it's not going to be a pleasurable experience for them.

Before we start creating words, we need to analyze the way we can make sounds. For a more in depth reading on the subject, head to this website:

http://www.ancientscripts.com/phonetics.html

There are several different types of consonants, and thus, several different types of sounds. We'll examine these types: Stop, Fricative, Affricate, Nasal, Liquid, and Semivowels.

The Stop consonants are as follows: 1. {P B} 2. {T D} 3. {K G}. I've labeled them differently because you use different parts of your mouth to pronounce them. 1 uses the lips, 2 uses the tip of the tongue, and 3 uses the body of the tongue.

The Fricative consonants are as follows: 1. {F V} 2. {Th D(h)} 3. {S Z} 4. {Sh Zh} 5. {H}. Again, the labels mean different parts of the mouth. 1 uses the lips, 2 uses the tip of the tongue, 3 uses the tip of the tongue, 4 uses the blade of the tongue, 5 uses the throat.

The Affricate consonants are as follows: 1. {Ch J}
There are more affricates, but most of them were covered in Stop. Ch and J both use the blade of the tongue, just like sh and zh.

The nasal consonants are as follows: 1. {M} 2. {N} 3. {Ng}
1 uses the lips, 2 uses the tip of the tongue, 3 uses the body of the tongue.

The Liquid consonants are: 1. {L} 2. {R}
L is pronounced with the tip of the tongue. R is pronounced with the body of the tongue.

The Semivowel consonants are: 1. {W} 2. {Y}
W uses the lips, and Y uses the body of the tongue.

Now that we've gone through the basic sounds that consonants make, you're ready to decide the structure of your language. Do you want it to be more of a fricative (fluid) language (like elvish in LOTR)? Or do you want more stops (like Black Speech (language of Mordor) in LOTR)? Decide what sound you want, but don't limit your language to only one style of consonants, otherwise it will sound contrived and unnatural.

The next thing I'll cover is going to be vowels. Once we're done with vowels we'll be done covering sound, and we can move on to structure.

Any and all comments/posts are appreciated! Let's make this a combined effort. Share what you can on what we've already discussed.
Last edited by BenGrange on Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:06 pm
StoneHeart says...



Hey, this is actually really helpful. Due to the fact that my story is another world I want to have new languages, and this, actually, is just what I need.

This is my code.

Take your word, if the letter you're 'translating' is a vowel, then you go plus one on your list of vowels. If it's a consonant then you do the same, skipping vowels if they happen to come next.

Now, of course when you get to clusters this becomes a problem.

Words like Ipmhotj are hard to pronounce due to the "ngl" in the English word.

So obviously A: I have to completely make up a replacement for unpronounceable clusters or B: I have to make these unpronounceable clusters pronounceable.

How do you make something like "pmh" pronounceable, or "tj". I really don't want to have to always be referring to charts, I'd rather be able to do it in my head. Any ideas?
For I who am poor have only my dreams
I spread my dreams under your feet . . .

. . . tread softly for you tread on my dreams.


We are masters of our silences, and slaves of our words
  





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Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:08 am
BenGrange says...



Hey Black, here is what I would do. In order to make your cipher more coherent and into a language, go through and list all of the consonant clusters in English. I know this will be difficult, because there are a lot. But do that, and switch up your 'translating' process.

For example: with ngl in English. if 'n' is translated to 's', 'g' is translated to 'c', and 'l' is translated to 'h', you get 'sch'. You get my drift? Just go through the consonant clusters and decide what is going to flow the best.

Unfortunately, you're going to have to refer to charts. This will help the flow of your language, though. Everything that is worth it takes effort, so put in the effort.

Also, go back and read about rules. Your cipher needs rules that make it unique, otherwise it won't be a language. So go make some rules.

I hope this helped!
"If you really want something, no one can stop you. If you don't want something, then no one can help you." ~ James A. Owen
  





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Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:27 pm
StoneHeart says...



It did.
For I who am poor have only my dreams
I spread my dreams under your feet . . .

. . . tread softly for you tread on my dreams.


We are masters of our silences, and slaves of our words
  





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Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:58 pm
BenGrange says...



Here's another idea you can use. Like I said up above, try erasing letters from the language. For example, take out the letter "S".
Along those same lines, try substituting double letters into your language. For example, translate the letter "d" into "th" or translate the letter "f" into "st". Things like that. Just give your cipher tons of twists, and it will turn out really well. :)
"If you really want something, no one can stop you. If you don't want something, then no one can help you." ~ James A. Owen
  





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Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:05 am
VampireSenshi says...



if you guys want a something that's also fun to look at when approaching Language Creation - I recommend the Language Construction Kit by Mark Rosenfelder. That's something that helped me out tremendously when I was starting out. There's an online version as well as a printed version. A url if you'd like to look at that.

http://www.zompist.com/kit.html
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Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:47 am
BenGrange says...



Thanks Vamp! :)
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Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:50 pm
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Kale says...



VampireSenshi512 wrote:if you guys want a something that's also fun to look at when approaching Language Creation - I recommend the Language Construction Kit by Mark Rosenfelder. That's something that helped me out tremendously when I was starting out. There's an online version as well as a printed version. A url if you'd like to look at that.

http://www.zompist.com/kit.html

I HAVE BEEN SEARCHING FOR THAT LINK FOR FOREVER.

Thank you for linking it. <3

@Ben

I noticed that you've only been covering sounds found in Modern English. Are you planning on covering other non-Modern-English sounds?

But I really like how lay your explanations are. :3
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Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:32 pm
BenGrange says...



@Kyllorac , I'll be going into non-English sounds in a bit. I'll be able to dedicate more time to this in a few weeks - right now I'm super busy with mid terms, work, and polishing off a short story for a competition. We'll go into other languages and their sounds very soon.

I'm glad you like it, thanks!
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