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Israel gets two new subs



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Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:33 pm
sabradan says...



Aug. 22, 2006 23:58 | Updated Aug. 23, 2006 13:52
Exclusive: Israel buys 2 German subs
By YAAKOV KATZ
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In the face of Iran's race to obtain nuclear power, Israel signed a contract with Germany last month to buy two Dolphin-class submarines that will, according to foreign reports, provide superior second-strike nuclear capabilities, The Jerusalem Post has learned.

The submarines will be assembled in Germany and provided with a propulsion system allowing them to remain underwater for far longer than the submarines currently in the Israel Navy's fleet.

According to sources close to the deal, the submarines will be operational in the near future.

The Post has also learned that the navy is considering installing a Fixed Underwater Sonar System (FUSS) off the coast to detect foreign submarines.

In 1993, Iran bought two Russian Kilo-class submarines and eight mini-submarines from North Korea, although officials said this was not the only reason the system was being considered. In 2005, Israel spotted a Western submarine snooping off its shore.

The contract signing was said to have come after a long dispute over the price and financing of the submarines. According to the details obtained by the Post, Israel will purchase the two Dolphins, manufactured by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft AG, for $1.27 billion, a third of which will be financed by the German government.

The navy already has three Dolphin-class submarines. They are the most expensive weapon platforms in the IDF's arsenal. Germany donated the first two submarines after the first Gulf War and split the cost of the third with Israel. The three submarines currently in the navy's possession employ a diesel-electric propulsion system, which requires them to resurface frequently to recharge their batteries.

The new submarines - called the U212 - will be fitted with a new German technology in which the propulsion system combines a conventional diesel lead-acid battery system and an air-independent propulsion system used for slow, silent cruising, with a fuel cell equipped with oxygen and hydrogen storage.

The submarines will also incorporate specifications gleaned from Israeli experience. The Dolphins currently in the navy's fleet were tailor-made for Israel's needs and reportedly have considerable operational capability. They are designed for a crew of 35 and can support 10 passengers. They have a maximum speed of 20 knots, a range of 4,500 kilometers and, according to Jane's Defense Weekly, the capability to launch cruise missiles carrying nuclear warheads.

"With the new German technology," an official close to the deal said, "the new submarines will be able to remain submerged for much, much longer than the older Dolphin models."

News of the impending deal first emerged in November after Der Spiegel reported that chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's outgoing government had agreed to sell Israel two submarines at a heavily discounted price.

Prior to then, the German government had repeatedly turned down the request, supposedly because of reports the navy had outfitted the older submarines with Israeli-made, sea-launched cruise missiles.

Sensitive armament sales need approval from Berlin's Security Council. Several months ago, however, the German government, now headed by Chancellor Angela Merkel, approved the deal after, sources told the Post, no significant public opposition was voiced.

Closure of the deal followed on the heels of a warming in German-Israel ties. In 2005, the countries agreed for the first time to hold joint ground maneuvers. In June, the INS Eilat missile ship participated for the first time in a NATO exercise in the Black Sea, together with German Navy.


In my personal oppinion, this is a great move. First of all, subs are more or less the backbone/flagships of the Israeli Navy, and acquireing two more, that have nuclear missle capability does two things: 1. It makes the Israeli Navy more of a viable, "real" military force, and less of a "coast guard" like it is now/used to be. And 2. it sends the message to Syria and Iran that they better not try anything stupid, like, launching nukes at Israel, because now we have immediate response capability.

Anyways, lets have a contest. Who can come up with the best names for these two new vessels?
"He who takes a life...it is as if he has destroyed an entire world....but he who saves one life, it is as if he has saved the world entire" Talmud Sanhedrin 4:5

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Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:14 am
Bjorn says...



They mass-slaughtered them, and treated them like animals in WW2, and now they are giving them submarines capable of launching cruise-missles embedded with nuclear warheads-what is this world coming to!
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Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:45 am
smaur says...



Bjorn wrote:They mass-slaughtered them, and treated them like animals in WW2, and now they are giving them submarines capable of launching cruise-missles embedded with nuclear warheads-what is this world coming to!


Yes, because obviously Germany is still run by Nazis.
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Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:00 am
LamaLama says...



Germany was never run by the nazi party! They were all on vacation! They were in the back! All they heard was yodeling!
<end bad humor mode>
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Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:01 am
Snoink says...



I say "Flipper" and "True Porpoise!" Those would be such awesome names...

And hahaha... yes! Germany is still run by Nazis, and they all have those weird mustaches. What are they called? Oh well. Whatever. And! If they don't have those mustaches, then they have those slicked mustaches that make them look like Snidley Whiplash!

...I so totally rock at history.
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Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:15 am
sabradan says...



Heh, Bjorn
Germany is actually one of the most pro-Israel countrie in Europe.
"He who takes a life...it is as if he has destroyed an entire world....but he who saves one life, it is as if he has saved the world entire" Talmud Sanhedrin 4:5

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Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:38 pm
Galatea says...



In light of Israels recent behaviour, I'm not entirely sure this is a good idea...
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Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:24 pm
Snoink says...



Hah! Two perfect names! "Eat" and "Fresh."

...omg. I so totally need to get a life.
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Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:47 am
Bjorn says...



sabradan wrote:Heh, Bjorn
Germany is actually one of the most pro-Israel countrie in Europe.


Thanks to the German Pope (WHO IS A NAZI) and Merkel, leader of the Christian Democrats, and, of course, Chancellor of Germany (AND OF COURSE A BAVARIAN NAZI).
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Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:49 am
Snoink says...



Bjorn wrote:
sabradan wrote:Heh, Bjorn
Germany is actually one of the most pro-Israel countrie in Europe.


Thanks to the German Pope (WHO IS A NAZI) and Merkel, leader of the Christian Democrats, and, of course, Chancellor of Germany (AND OF COURSE A BAVARIAN NAZI).


Bjorn... shut up. Now.
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Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:39 am
LamaLama says...



Umm... being a member of the hitler youth doesn't make him a nazi. If you weren't jewish, and were white, and were in germany, and were male (all requirements that ratzinger met) you were required to join the hitler youth.

As much as I like to hate him, I gotta be fair.

Ratzinger in his earlier days did some good for Catholic Jewish relations. Including supervising and aproving a 210 page document that not only appologizes for anti-semetic passages in the new testament, but it mentions that the "jewish messainic wait is not in vain." and goes on to say that the two faiths wait for the same messaih.
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Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:59 am
Poor Imp says...



Bjorn wrote:
sabradan wrote:Heh, Bjorn
Germany is actually one of the most pro-Israel countrie in Europe.


Thanks to the German Pope (WHO IS A NAZI) and Merkel, leader of the Christian Democrats, and, of course, Chancellor of Germany (AND OF COURSE A BAVARIAN NAZI).


Ah, with the same intent as Snoink and different words: No uncalled-for, misinformed pot-shots at the pope, if you don't mind?

As lama says with admirable resigned objectivity -
Umm... being a member of the hitler youth doesn't make him a nazi. If you weren't jewish, and were white, and were in germany, and were male (all requirements that ratzinger met) you were required to join the hitler youth.

As much as I like to hate him, I gotta be fair.

Ratzinger in his earlier days did some good for Catholic Jewish relations. Including supervising and aproving a 210 page document that not only appologizes for anti-semetic passages in the new testament, but it mentions that the "jewish messainic wait is not in vain." and goes on to say that the two faiths wait for the same messaih.
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Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:43 pm
Bjorn says...



I'm sorry! Honestly... I mean, Snoink mentions Germany is still run by nazis (which I personally find offensive), and I understand it's sarcastic-but I was being sarcastic too! I understand my opinions tend to offend... I'll try and not let it slip again! I must work towards my integration into the collective! This is a commune for all the Gods' sakes! I can't be the odd one out! Well, I'm not really...


Names for the vessels - 1.Unterseebooten Juden (it is a German made vessel(s))
2.Bullet of the Seas (cuz subs are kinda shaped like them :))
Killing For Peace Is Like F#@%ing For Chastity
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Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:39 am
LamaLama says...



Bjorn.... my sarcasm meter just exploded. You owe me a new one.

When Snoink said germany was still run by nazi's, it was MORE than obvious that she was joking. You looked like you meant what you said. There's a difference.
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Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:54 am
Griffinkeeper says...



Bjorn wrote:I'm sorry! Honestly... I mean, Snoink mentions Germany is still run by nazis (which I personally find offensive), and I understand it's sarcastic-but I was being sarcastic too! I understand my opinions tend to offend... I'll try and not let it slip again! I must work towards my integration into the collective! This is a commune for all the Gods' sakes! I can't be the odd one out! Well, I'm not really...


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