z

Young Writers Society


Romance



User avatar
1125 Reviews

Supporter


Gender: Female
Points: 53415
Reviews: 1125
Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:59 pm
View Likes
StellaThomas says...



I figure it's time we have a discussion about one of Stella's favourite topics: loooooooooooooove.

Image

What are your opinions on romance? Do you like it or loathe it? Does it keep you sane, drive you insane, or a bit of both? Are you Ewan McGregor or Nicole Kidman in Moulin Rouge? Does love lift us up where we belong, or make us out like we are fools?

Image

Do you like nothing more than curling up with a Jane Austen novel and crying over Mr Darcy's proposal, or do you cringe and change channels whenever The Notebook is on TV?

Do your opinions about your personal life differ to those you hold about your favourite fictional characters? Are you a massive shipper, or do you think that romantic subplots are stupid and detract from the story?

Image

And if you're a big sucker for romance, what are some of your favourite love stories - and what are some of your favourite tools used in telling love stories? Do you like love at first sight, or prefer a slow-burn relationship? And in real life - do you believe in love at first sight? Do you want someone to serenade you at your window in the middle of the night? Or do you think romance is a distraction for society while the world's governments work to build a super-robot?

I'll start: I love romance. I love love stories. I love love. I love hearing about it, I love reading about it, I love feeling it! I'm a big sappy romantic and you know what? I'm not ashamed to admit it.

What about you guys?
"Stella. You were in my dream the other night. And everyone called you Princess." -Lauren2010
  





User avatar
433 Reviews



Gender: Male
Points: 13351
Reviews: 433
Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:08 pm
View Likes
TakeThatYouFiend says...



Firstly, I disagree with remarriage after divorce, so if a romance deals with that sort of thing, cheating etc, I get annoyed with it. Other than that tho romances are fine, as long as its not too cliche.
Best love story? Cyrano Bergerac. I don't speak french but I saw a couple of translations and it's pretty much the only love story to have made me cry
You know that studded leather armour in films? Nobody wore that. I mean, how would metal studs improve leather armour?
  





User avatar
696 Reviews

Supporter


Gender: Female
Points: 5533
Reviews: 696
Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:14 pm
View Likes
Audy says...



Blaaaaahhhh Rant. Rant. Rant.

Spoiler! :
To tell the truth, I love romance. I love the fundamental aspect of two people who are discovering love, or fighting for love and overcoming adversaries. That's essentially the core and the basics and the thing I love about it, how you can have two character arcs, and character growth, relationship growth, and dynamics between the characters all bouncing at each other and affecting the other. That is a lot of fun.

Whether it is Mr. Darcy or Disney princess movies, or Slum dog millionaire or the Great Gatsby, I loved every single one of these stories, but I do feel a bit frustrated with the genre itself in that it's too often cheapened or structured into these repetitive tropes.

At the start of any TV show, movie, or book, you know who the Girl is and who she is going to end up with, or the Boy is, and who he is going to end up with. The solution for me is not so much that we should value twist endings, or automatically subvert for the sake of subverting, like villain gets the girl, or Best-Friend/Sidekick gets the Girl the way you see in HP and then author recants some 5 or 6 years later P:< But I guess I would really just like to see a total re-imagining/reconstructing of the genre itself from the roots up. In other words, it's not that shipping itself is bad, it can be a lot of fun, but it just seems like everything is about shipping now. Now, it's almost like you HAVE to have an obligatory third wheel that could or might become THE second wheel and then nope! Just kidding. Blaergh.

Right now, romance is so hollywoodized that other than the few indie things we get every once in a while (I absolutely Loved Her <3) we conceive of romance more as a sub-genre, or an adjective rather than a whole genre all to itself. For example, you see romance elements play in all of the other genres: Action/Adventure, Fantasy, Scifi and what we're seeing less and less is Big-Ticket-Romance as a standalone item.

Even Her is marketed more as a science fiction rather than a romance, or they'll get marketed as a "Drama" or "Dramedy". Rather than saying "Romance", it's "romantic drama" or "Bromance".

If you were truly to imagine romance as a standalone genre again, there would just be so much potential to it. Romance CAN HAVE elements of
fantasy, sci-fi and action in it, in the same way that fantasy/sci-fi/action have romance in them.

A romance story with sci-fi elements can explore the biochemistry or psychology or neurology of love and attraction.

A romance story with fantasy elements can explore the morality/spirtuality/magic (think of how the concept of soul mates can be as much fantasy as the concept of dragons for example).

But there is a lack of exploring the genre, or exploring the relationships between people, perhaps it is for lack of an understanding of it, or that we've reduced it to such simple matters that need no understanding. Romance can be more than two people coping with adversity, or jealousy or divorce. I mean these are all good themes, but what about the worldbuilding that is created between the two people? Y'know, the whole Aladdin concept of creating a whole new world which they are fighting for. This is the plight of the LGBT community right here. What about "people building", together with and in place of worldbuilding?

What if we had different courting rituals? How are courting rituals expressed throughout cultures, throughout the animal kingdom? What if we lived in a society outside of monogamy, what would a utopian polygamy system look like without a patriarchy? What if we lived in a world where everyone is asexual or everyone is bisexual?

Or instead of valuing logic and independence, we valued emotional competence and empathy? What about corrupt relationships instead of corrupt politicians? In this environment where our ideas of orientation, love, marriage is at this flux, these are the kinds of stories and questions that can be really interesting to tackle, and really interesting to read or see on the big screen.

We never question why we are coupling, other than the need for reproduction we never question why there is a need for coupling, or what would a world look like without that. There are so many worldbuilding opportunities when you view the world through the lens of romance, but these aren't the stories that are being told right now.

TLDR;
We badly need love journeys the way we need heroic journeys. Even saying that we don't have as much of a cultural appreciation in romance today is denying the fact that romance is the NUMBER ONE selling genre across the world!! And that's how it's ALWAYS been!

Perhaps it's because I've got an English degree though, and I am sensitive to the way the community too often considers romantic fiction as "low-brow", I felt the need to rant about it today :^P It really, really doesn't have to be that way.
  





User avatar
1125 Reviews

Supporter


Gender: Female
Points: 53415
Reviews: 1125
Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:15 pm
View Likes
StellaThomas says...



Omg @Audy, I really love your thoughts on ways to tell original love stories! You are right, very often I can get bored because I know what's going to happen. One of the things that I love about The Host (@Iggy, come back me up on this one) is that it doesn't tell the love story that you think it's going to -- it tells a much better one. I think my main qualm with some romances is that they can come off as unnatural. Especially in books where they get together as teenagers and stay together their whole life - because while that does happen, ending the book with them as teenagers and assuming that they just grow up and get married without any adversity - well that's just plain silly! And yet it happens all the time, and you're right, it cheapens it.
"Stella. You were in my dream the other night. And everyone called you Princess." -Lauren2010
  





User avatar
504 Reviews

Supporter


Gender: Male
Points: 21355
Reviews: 504
Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:30 pm
Kafkaescence says...



What is romance? High mutual emotional/sexual investment? Why must it conform to specific standards and archetypes? And:

Do you want someone to serenade you at your window in the middle of the night?

This isn't actually as fun as it sounds. It's pretty scary tbh.
#TNT

WRFF
  





User avatar
1735 Reviews

Supporter


Gender: None specified
Points: 91980
Reviews: 1735
Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:58 am
View Likes
BluesClues says...



@TakeThatYouFiend I LOVE CYRANO DE BERGERAC even though it's totally depressing in the proud tradition of French literature. Have you seen the version with Gerard Depardieu? Lkjdapiejojpjfaldjf!!!!!!!!

Also I caught like two minutes of a stage version once, on "Great Performances." Jennifer Gardner was Roxane. I don't know who the guy was that played Cyrano, but he was fantastic. *sigh* If only I'd had DVR back then.
  





Random avatar


Gender: Male
Points: 615
Reviews: 16
Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:18 am
View Likes
Taxi says...



Ever since I was a kid, I've been obsessed with romance in fiction. I'd try to figure out who the love interest is in every story I'd see, and if there wasn't a love interest, I'd be pretty disappointed.

Love doesn't have to take up the entire story - in fact I prefer it not to - but I definitely like it to be there in some form. It can do wonders in showing more of the characters' personalities, testing them, and creating/changing conflicts. It's like taking two or more of the cast and forcing them to balance on a stepping stool. It's also cute and fun and lighthearted!
(Or petty and mean and depressing.)

One of the things I tend to dislike is love at first site, however. It just seems childish to me. You can be attracted to someone right off the bat, sure... but I want that cute, awkward phase of uncertainty to last. I'd list romantic subplots pretty high on a "List of Things You Really, Really Don't Want To Rush".
  





User avatar
1735 Reviews

Supporter


Gender: None specified
Points: 91980
Reviews: 1735
Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:38 am
View Likes
BluesClues says...



Ahem. And now to actually weigh in on this conversation in a semi-productive way.

@StellaThomas While I agree with you in theory on the teen romance stuff, it's a bit complicated because teenagers want to read about teenager romances. And let's face it, a lot of teenagers are as devastated by breakups as if they thought they were going to be together forever. And a lot of high school sweethearts end up getting married, often right after graduation.

Aaaaaaaaand I may or may not have been completely in love with a boy when I was sixteen, so I'm a bit forgiving of teen romances, even though I'm also aware that, yes: "happy endings" in teen romances are superficial because you know that they could easily end up breaking up later in life for any number of reasons.

That being said, any ending other than the death of all the characters is technically superficial since life goes on. I mean, that happy ending where your heroes saved New York City from an alien invasion? Great, but the infrastructure has been pretty screwed up and the economy could face serious fluctuation and a bunch of people are homeless now because of all the destroyed buildings and...

You know what I'm saying? And that's not even talking about the characters themselves--that's just the crap that could be happening with the city and the, let's say, "extras" after the end of the story. But like, even adult romances with happy endings are superficial, because who's to say the characters in that story don't later get divorced, or one of them dies, or one of them cheats, or...

Sorry, that got a little long. But you see my point.

Anyway, @Audy, I don't like writing pure romance (most of the time, although I have a romance with fantasy elements in the works when The Book Man is done with revisions), but I like playing around with it within my other works. I think part of the reason it doesn't get done much, especially in the genre itself, is because--I mean, society kind of limits you, right?

Like, if I may say so and get kind of personal for a minute...

Spoiler! :
I am two things:

1. Demisexual, meaning I have to be romantically attached to someone for quite some time before sex. Meaning, no one-night stands. Like my one friend says she would bang Tom Hiddleston without question if she had a chance, whereas--as attractive, talented, and ridiculously polite and kind as the man is--I just know I couldn't. There would have to be many, many dates first, or much hanging out, or...well, no one-night stands, even with a god among men.

2. Borderline asexual? I'm fuzzy on this still because the definition of "asexual" is "someone who does not experience sexual attraction," but that doesn't mean asexual people NEVER experience sexual attraction or arousal, so....?????? Anyway, most of the time I just feel no need for it or interest in it, but then sometimes I do. My poor husband.


Okay, so whether you read that or not, the point here is that I often write characters who aren't interested in sex. Male characters. Male characters in their thirties. Who may be either asexual or demisexual or something like it (this was before I learned about these terms) and who fall in love with women but really haven't had much sex before or are more interested in the emotional intimacy--not like idealistic romantic heroes (who generally also have to sweep the women off their feet physically in addition to being "sensitive" and whatnot)...

...and people would always read my stories and say, "That's unrealistic!!! Men have sex!!! Men want sex!!!"

And I was like, "...oh..."

But then I found out about asexuality and demisexuality and all this other stuff, so now I'm like, "Screw you guys, my characters are this way and that's that."

But it's so hard, I think, for this sort of thing to break into the genre when so many people deny that anything like this exists. Even a lot of the queer community denies the existence of asexuality or pansexuality. They're like the unicorns of sexuality. So good luck finding an agent or editor who will support your story if they're going to read it and go, "This is totally unrealistic."

Oh, well.

So that got long again and went in a totally different direction than what I meant, so I'll shut up now.
  





User avatar
110 Reviews



Gender: Male
Points: 546
Reviews: 110
Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:08 am
Zolen says...



Romance is boring.
Self quoting is the key to sounding wise and all knowing.
  





User avatar
332 Reviews



Gender: None specified
Points: 10657
Reviews: 332
Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:21 am
Blackwood says...



Zolen wrote:Romance is boring.

Join the anti-romance club.
Hahah....haha.....ahahaha.
  





User avatar
172 Reviews



Gender: Female
Points: 0
Reviews: 172
Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:36 am
View Likes
Laure says...



@Zolen, @Blackwood, you know that idea's been brewing in my head for eons.
  





User avatar
332 Reviews



Gender: None specified
Points: 10657
Reviews: 332
Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:50 am
Blackwood says...



Laure wrote:@Zolen, @Blackwood, you know that idea's been brewing in my head for eons.

No, actually @Laure clubs/1735
Hahah....haha.....ahahaha.
  





User avatar
1125 Reviews

Supporter


Gender: Female
Points: 53415
Reviews: 1125
Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:03 pm
View Likes
StellaThomas says...



Noooooooooo! Do I have to start a counter Romance Club?
"Stella. You were in my dream the other night. And everyone called you Princess." -Lauren2010
  





User avatar
433 Reviews



Gender: Male
Points: 13351
Reviews: 433
Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:31 pm
TakeThatYouFiend says...



@BlueAfrica I'm not sure but I think I've seen that one, also the stage production might have been RSC? I think there was one-I have certainly seen a videoed stage production.
Also about your earlier comment, I get annoyed with my fellow men due to their corseness and blunt sexual predatory-ness. I mean they're in Middle School for petes sake! I am straight, but I don't need to womanize to prove my masculinity, unlike some of my brothers in gender.
And although admittedly I am interested in sex, I would value far more a real relationship. What I am trying to say is just because someone isn't openly blatant about their sexuality doesn't mean their demisexual or asexual. It just means they're gentlemanly.
You know that studded leather armour in films? Nobody wore that. I mean, how would metal studs improve leather armour?
  





User avatar
1735 Reviews

Supporter


Gender: None specified
Points: 91980
Reviews: 1735
Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:55 pm
View Likes
BluesClues says...



Oh, I agree. But if you write a man that way, you will get a lot of people who tell you it's unrealistic. Which is kind of sexist toward men, actually? Because people are like, "No, men are sex fiends and can never be interested in anything about a woman but sex." Oh, okay. Sure.

@Audy I was thinking about this again yesterday when I was making a list of books for my Squills articles, and you know what the other problem is? Romance with elements of other things do exist, but they always end up classified as the other thing. Like there's this book called The Night Circus, which I would say is romance with fantastical elements since the centerpiece of the book is this budding romance between two magicians who are supposed to be dueling each other. But because it has magic and a night circus and magicians and all this stuff, everyone classifies it as fantasy even though the romance is the main point...and the publisher probably published it that way.

Like I don't think you could take a romance novel with fantastical elements to a romance publishing company and get it published, because the company would go, "This is fantasy???? We don't do fantasy???? Take it to a fantasy publisher????"
  








Between living and dreaming there is a third thing. Guess it.
— Antonio Machado