Young Writers Society

Yeah, yeah, yeah. . . I know. Why does anyone want to listen to me? I mean, I'm a new member, I haven't posted any of my own stories yet, and you can't even see if I'm legitimate or not. So you shouldn't have to care about what I have to say, right?

Well, you actually should. And for several reasons.

First of all, let me establish my legitimacy. I've been writing for a long time, and I mean a VERY LONG TIME, considering how old I am. Currently, I am 18 years old, and I've been writing (and writing seriously) since I was 6 years old. That's a period of 12 years, for those of you who can't subtract, lol. Secondly, I've been studying writing for quite a while now. I've been enrolled in AP English and literature courses since I was 14, which have helped me perfect my writing. (But by all means, my writing is still far from perfect.) I'm also currently taking a college-level fiction writing course, which is taught by a nationally renowned, published author. So, now I'm sure that you understand I know what I'm talking about.

Okay, so now you're probably wondering what the hell I said all of that for. Well, here's what I was really intending to say. And please don't take it offensively, because I'm not trying to stab at anyone or their beliefs, or their actions regarding this site. I'm merely voicing an opinion.

First of all, I think sites like this one are a wonderful idea, and I mean that sincerely. I like having the chance to have my work critiqued and perhaps even edited by my peers. Often times, our peers are our most helpful audience because they think as we do and are thus better critics.

But unfortunately, the good often comes with bad.

I would just like to say that I hate the way some (NOT ALL) of the critiques and comments are being phrased. One should NEVER begin a critique with a suggestion or negative comments. Critiques are ALWAYS started by stating the positive aspects of a piece, while the negatives and suggestions are added later. Also, I've only been on this site for a total of two days, and I've already noticed several bitterly harsh comments and critiques (ironically enough, they're all by the same know-it-all person... no names until it becomes more of a problem.) This hurts me for two reasons.

The first is that having comments and critiques should be an enlightening experience for the recipient. A person should be able to learn from mistakes and edit his/her work without the issue of someone hurting his/her feelings. Comments should always be left keeping in mind the feelings of the person on the receiving end.

The second reason this hurts me is because writing is a PERSONAL hobby. Our writing reflects our personal opinions and biases, our likes and dislikes, and ultimately, our own personal writing style. Wouldn't you agree that this world would be really, really boring if we all wrote about the same things in the same style? It would be horrible!!

That's why I feel that comments and critiques should be free of opinions and biases. I've noticed that several writers have been leaving comments and critiques that should otherwise be objective, but instead are founded on personal opinions. Since we're all taught how to write differently, we all have different views about style, voice and interpretation, and we thus have no right whatsoever to tell someone else how to write. One can give suggestions and interpretations, and even expressing an opinion is harmless enough if it's not harsh or hateful, but under no circumstances should someone ever critique someone else's work solely on the basis of personal thoughts and biases.

For instance, someone who feels that poems should be long and subtly expressive in details and emotions should NEVER tell another person that his/her poem is all wrong because it isn't long enough or isn't subtle enough. (Poetry is a hard category to critique anyway, because it's so versatile.)

Remember that old adage, "one man's trash is another man's treasure"? Well, this is a perfect example. One person may think that another's work is complete crap, but to aother person, that same work might be a masterpiece. We shouldn't base comments on our own biases because writing is subjective.

You don't have to listen to me, if you think I'm out of my mind, because these are merely my personal beliefs. This is what I have been taught. All in all, though, I suppose what I've been trying to say this entire time is:

Please be mindful of other people, their feelings, their beliefs, and their specific writing personality. And under no circumstances should anyone EVER leave a comment or critique that is based on personal teachings. If it's not a widely-accepted opinion or bias about writing, then chances are the person who is receiving it would rather not receive it.

Thank you for taking the time to read this. I really appreciate it, and I'm sure that there are some other authors on this site who appreciate it as well. Happy writing!!


Sincerely, Southern_Belle

Welcome to YWS, Belle-san.
I've been writing since I was four -still have some scribblings from then, too- that's nine years.
I agree on most you have written here. What I do not agree on I will not mention.
Welcome to the YWS, hope to see you around. Ja meta!
~Sumi

That's an excellent way to start off. Wow. You've been a writer for 12 years? Wow. That must make you entitled to any opinion you have. Wow. You've been here for one day? And you already read every single critique here? That's amazing.

You do get points for having good grammar. Just too bad it's all for nothing.

Maybe you'll get to know YWS a little better over time?

At any rate, welcome to YWS! You might look into joining the debate usergroup--they could use you there.

What sort of stuff do you like to write?

Feel free to PM me if you have questions.

--Cass

Hello Southern Belle! and welcome, naturally, to YWS.

On the point of criticism, I had rather the same impression when I first dropped in here. Too heavy and often too fastidious on distracting details - I even wrote something like this in the "About the Author" forum, I think. ^_^'' But I decided I critique closely and by person, as it all ends in case by case; and half the attitude here isn't nearly as harsh as it first seems.

Bad first impressions, you know.

To move on to lighter things, welcome again! Writing consistently for twelve years? You've got me beat, to be blunt. ^_^ I hope you enjoy yourself. And if you ever have a question, or are in need of a critique, feel free to PM me. (Or most any of the mods, in green - we tend to be helpful. ^_^)



IMP

Yay! I've been writing for twelve years too! And I've taken college courses! It's nice to know that there are others like me. Of course, I seem to be drifting off away from literature and more into the maths, but go figure.

Resist the temptation! Don't critique critiques... instead, provide a positive example of a critique. People will follow. And remember... when critiquing something (in this case, a website and its members) make sure to be positive first and then discuss the negative aspects later.

Have fun here!

Howdy Southern_Belle -


When writers post at the YWS, or Erato, or similar sites - or when they attend face-to-face workshops - the intent is collaboration.

re: "For instance, someone who feels that poems should be long and subtly expressive in details and emotions should NEVER tell another person that his/her poem is all wrong because it isn't long enough or isn't subtle enough."

This is precisely the wrong sort of attitude to be bringing with you to the YWS and any workshop, in general. As far as the ultimate end-goal is an informal collaboration, this means that we are united not by our ability to directly aid each other, but rather through an implicit intertextual reflection and refraction process. What I am saying is that each member here, upon commenting on a work, is effectively contributing his or her voice to that piece, and it is up to the author to determine which suggestions are best. In your own example, I wonder that there surely have been cases where someone said "expand this" and a poem became beautiful? I can think of no reason to always prove the contrary.

Personally, I always equate voice to finding a style that works for you -- a diction, structure, approach, etc. Nothing mystical for sure, but it is an art trying to find the right combination of all poetic elements and fit them into your pen. This is done not only from writing but also from reading. When a user leaves a comment on your work, you are getting the benefit of both.

Lastly, on this issue, that anyone, ever, takes time out of their life to (mostly) anonymously give feedback to something you have written is thanks enough. To start placing limitations on the method they prefer to leave feedback seems to me to violate, no offense meant, the old adage, "beggars can't be choosers."

Now,

re: We shouldn't base comments on our own biases because writing is subjective.

I have already skimped around this issue, but let me put it directly for you: where should our comments be coming from, if not ourselves? It seems to me to undermine the purpose of a workshop to deprive readers of their central place as, well, "readers," precisely. If anything, we should entirely base our comments on our own biases--how else could a writer possibly gauge his or her target audience, how things are truly received, and what others feel about the work? I'm sorry, but this point to me seems trivial and contradictory to our purpose. Not to be coy, but in this line you tell us not to come from personal biases, but almost immediately afterwards you turn around and tell us "You don't have to listen to me, if you think I'm out of my mind, because these are merely my personal beliefs," but that's only to turn around and warn us not to "EVER leave a comment or critique that is based on personal teachings."

Perhaps you should clarify where it is you are coming from, then, since it's not transparent to those of us on the outside looking in.

re: If it's not a widely-accepted opinion or bias about writing, then chances are the person who is receiving it would rather not receive it.

These sorts of statements always give me pause. More than anything, a writer should know and anticipate his audience. Just like going to the racetrack, the winner isn't known until the race is finished, but you can study the form and avoid making dumb bets. If you have looked at our forums, then you know the type of response you can expect to receive. You have a choice now to either post and accept what comes your way, or not-post and reserve your work for other eyes.

We do not force you to post here, so it seems silly, at least to this user--who surely has had fewer years under his own belt regarding writing--that you explain to us how we should go about giving feedback. If you aren't happy with what you get, then ignore it or leave. There are literally tens and hundreds of alternative writing websites where an audience to your liking exists. If this isn't it, we'll be sad to see you go, but you simply must do what works for you.

Other than that nonsense, welcome to the YWS! And congrats on your years of writing experience and the courses you have taken!


Cheers,
Brad

Welcome, m'dear.

It's great to have you here. As Wesley and Inigo would say, "You seem like a decent fellow", from the work you have posted and your heated but lovely words.

Wow, cool, I've been writing since I was six too. Go us!

If you have any questions or anything, feel free to PM me.

About your Sonnet 2, demmed if I remember everything I wrote the first go around. I hope I do remember when I get time enough to finish.

Ciao,
Cal.

Welcome to the YWS,

Here, we do try to mention the positives of the piece as well as the negatives--but know that we will not lie to you. We are opinionated, but without opinion's an author would not know how to write to their audience (as Brad said)...and you seem to be very opinionated as well. We are here to better each others, and our own, writing...only saying the positive would give a false impression of the piece and the author might go on living an lie where they think they have a brilliant piece of work when really it's only substantial.

But, I think if you give it a chance and accept the good with the bad then you might enjoy it here.

So, welcome!

Meg

Wow, you seem to have caused quite a stir. Ruffled a few feathers, as it were. Wow, I should try poetry...

Anyways, I agree with some of the stuff you said, I didn't agree with some of the other stuff you said, so let's leave it at that.

Welcome to YWS. As you can tell, I'm not particularly good at poetry, but feel free to PM me, or anyone, if you have any problems.

-Kaz

I Agree in part with some of what you said. I do get quite annoyed when i read some critiques which just bitch about someones writing then say none of the good attributes.

and i certainly do get very disheartened when someone sritiques me saying this and that is total BULL then says one tiny good thing.

Anyway welcome to the site and PM me if you wanna have a talk or something. My inbox looks very sparse.

-Jules

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