Young Writers Society

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'We experiment with ourselves in a way we would never permit ourselves to experiment with animals and, carried away by our curiosity, we cheerfully vivisect our souls.'-Nietszche

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:20 am Post subject:

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Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:41 am Post subject:

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Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:47 am Post subject:

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'We experiment with ourselves in a way we would never permit ourselves to experiment with animals and, carried away by our curiosity, we cheerfully vivisect our souls.'-Nietszche

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:06 pm Post subject:

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Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:02 am Post subject:

I have to object to that statement. There was a brutal invasion, in which many thousands died. There was extreme disorder, choas and despair as a result. There was no liberating as such.

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:17 am Post subject:

Assuming that's taken as such, the fact that there was disorder and people died says nothing about whether the country was liberated. Freedom has never come easily, rarely without bloodshed. But you've started with the presupposition that the United States invaded to impose their own values and beliefs. They went in to root out terrorists, and to liberate those who asked. No one was freeunder the Taliban. Firstly, there's the possibility that some 'values' and beliefs are more just or more natural. So are murderers not to be imposed upon to stop murdering?

War is never, ought never to be the first choice. I agree wholly that invading another country should be in extremity. But not that the struggle in Afghanistan is in the least comparable to sentencing a man for conversion to another religion - especially when their own constitution protects him.

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:10 am Post subject:

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"He who takes a life...it is as if he has destroyed an entire world....but he who saves one life, it is as if he has saved the world entire" Talmud Sanhedrin 4:5

!Hasta la victoria siempre! (Always, until Victory!)
-Ernesto "Che" Guevarra

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:07 pm Post subject:

It's an example that's used a lot, but it doesn't entirely fit the bill.

People in society are subject to an unwritten social contract: if you're going to take benefits from society (healthcare, welfare, protection by police/army, even roads and suchlike) then you have to be prepared to abide by the laws of society. If you choose not to obey those laws, then you are a criminal and will be treated as such - if you don't want to obey the laws, but also don't want to be a criminal, then you have the choice to opt out of society, meaning you either move somewhere else, or you commit suicide.

That's the basis behind why we infringe upon murderer's rights to stop them murdering - because they're trying to stay in society and take from it without accepting the laws that come with that, society (and therefore those appointed to dispense justice) has a right to take away freedoms and privilages. However, that doesn't hold true for another country - just because we don't like what they're doing doesn't mean we have any hold over them, because there is no social contract for the international community. As can be seen by the groundswell of popular support, this action has the mandate of the people in that country, making it all the more justified.

I'm a neo-Nietzschean, so I don't have any of these ethical problems: I just say go in there and impose a better way of life to your hearts content. But at least admit that's what you're doing.

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject:

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:49 pm Post subject:

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Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject:

The Taliban didn't rule. They are a terrorist group (or freedom fighters, depending on your point of view).

Anyways, on the actual issue... I'm torn. On one hand, I feel it is wrong to kill a man over his belief system. On the other hand, I don't know what it's like out there.

If this were to be happening in England (or anywhere else in the Western world) then I would object. But the East is alien to me (although I have every intention of visiting it in my life time).

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:18 pm Post subject:

Converting is a sin. Punishable by death. Murder of the soul is still murder.

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:26 pm Post subject:

Just as a note - no one is punished for their sexual preference in the West/United States. They are/have been punished for their behaviour.

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:39 pm Post subject:

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~assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh~may the peace, mercy, and blessings of Allah be with you~

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