Young Writers Society

This is now the 4th draft on the first chapter of my novel based on the helpful tips and critisms so far. Thanks all and enjoy.
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Shadowstone (Working Title)

Chapter One: Easy Pickings

Vaile tossed the bag of coins in the air. She caught it, smiling as the soft chinking reached her ears. She gazed down as the men left the tavern. Her simple dark clothes hid her from view, blending her perfectly into the shadows. None of them looked up. No one ever did. It was best to keep your eyes down in the city of Eln. It was best not to be noticed. Vaile had perfected that.

As the men passed around the corner Vaile dropped from her perch onto the rough grown below. She moved silently toward the tavern and stepped inside. It was small; dusty tables stood next to a dwindling fire, small outcrops housed faintly burning oil lamps and rickety stools lined the bar. It was gone midnight and the tavern was empty, aside from one man attempting to clean a tankard with an already dirty cloth. He looked up at her with a smirk as she entered and poured out ale into the tankard he’d been cleaning.

She didn’t approach the bar right away. Instead she moved quickly across the room, gazing out of the dark windows before pulling mouldy curtains to cover them.

“There ain’t any Council spies out there, Vaile,” the barman said, his rough features barely illuminated by light of the dying fire. He pushed the ale toward her.

Vaile pulled the dark green hood of her cloak from her head to reveal a rugged clump of short, unkempt mousy brown hair. She smiled at him but didn’t reply as she pulled up a stool and took the ale. He gazed at her intently for a moment, then shook his head and started cleaning another tankard. A minute of silent passed.

“Don’t you want to know what I’ve been doing, Hurn?” Vaile asked. Hurn looked up at her again. He had seen the same mischievous glint in her eyes before, almost eleven years ago.

“I doubt it,” he said. She pouted and he gave in. “Go on then.”

Vaile responded by dropping the large bag of coins on the bar in front of him. He laughed and scooped up the bag.

“Which poor bugger did you take these from then?” he asked.

“I took it from the belt of a young man entering the Crimson Dragon; tall, dark, handsome, Officer of the Legion, you know the type,” said Vaile, putting on a fake innocent smile. Hurn turned over the bag in hands, and recognised the insignia of the legion, a silver sword wrapped in gold thread on a black background.

“I told you to stay away from the Legion’s Quarter,” said Hurn, sternly.

“I wasn’t seen,” said Vaile, rolling her eyes, “besides, someone has to support your gambling problem.” She leant back and swirled her finger in her tankard. Hurn sighed again.


“I didn’t know any of the legions had returned,” he said.

“The 7th were relieved by the 3rd at Forest’s Edge but they’re leaving for Lelm this evening and the 4th returned a few hours ago,” said Vaile. “I always listen before I steal,” she added, noticing Hurn’s raised brow.

“Just be careful,” he said after another moment of silence. Vaile stretched out a hand a wrapped it around his. She could feel him shiver as her soft skin brushed against the rough hairs on his. She didn’t say anything, merely smiled at him. Then she stood up suddenly and let go of his hand.

“You’re not going out again?” asked Hurn with a grimace. Vaile leant over the bar and kissed Hurn’s forehead.

“I’m hungry,” she said simply. Hurn didn’t have any time to argue before she was already at the door. She covered her hair with her hood, pulled open the tavern door and disappeared into the darkness.

* * *

The Crimson Dragon, the largest tavern in Eln, stood along the road which separated the Merchant's and Legion's Quarter. Unlike Hurn's quiet tavern in the Merchant's Quarter this tavern was full of people. It was, mostly unwillingly, playing host to several members of the 4th Legion.

Captain Nain and several other officers of the 4th were stretched out on fine leather chairs in front of a roaring fire. He clicked his fingers at a young barmaid as she passed.

“Bring my men another round, girl,” he commanded.

“We’re about to close, sir, sorry,” the barmaid said.

“Who do you think you’re speaking to, girl?” Nain had got to his feet and rounded the barmaid so quickly that she’d stumbled back and fallen. The man behind the bar rushed forward to help her to her feet.

“I’m very sorry, my Lord, she knew not to whom she spoke, I’ll fetch those ales for you now,” he said, head bowed.

“Make sure to teach her better manners in the future,” said Nain with a sneer.

“O-of course, my Lord,” stuttered the barman as the young girl hid behind him. Nain sneered again and slid back into his place at the fire. None of his officers addressed him directly. They feared him and that fear gave him control. Ignoring them he looked down at the maps strewn out on the small table in front of him.

* * *

Anarark looked intently at his commanding officer perusing the map. He turned away as Nain looked up him, pretending instead to take a sip from his untouched tankard. Nain looked back to map and Anarark saw a cruel smile cross his lips. Anarark gazed around the tavern, fixing first on the icy stare that the barman was giving him. Anarark was hardly surprised. The tavern had looked new when they had arrived but now bar stools were broken; pictures hung slanted on the walls and a mix of ale and vomit stained the floor. Nain was feared and respected by most of the Legion, so much so that many of those under his command had taken to imitating his brutish behaviour. It was not the first tavern Anarark had seen wrecked and he didn’t expect it to be the last.

He felt something heavy hit his leg and turned in time to see glass shatter against the table, fresh ale poured across the detailed maps. The young barmaid, who had been bringing their next round of drinks, had tripped over Anarark’s outstretched leg and dropped one the glasses.

“You idiot girl!” Nain yelled and rounded on her. Ale was dripping from a dark patch on his uniform. Anarark could see Nain’s hand rise to strike her and quickly stood up.

“Sorry, Sir,” he said, standing between Nain and barmaid, who had now scrambled away, “I tripped the girl, it was my fault.”

“Stupid bitch should have looked where she was going,” said Nain, still staring at the girl. His face calmed slightly and he turned to Anarark, “Bring the maps with you, Lieutenant.”

Nain and the others members of the 4th left, leaving Anarark alone with the barman and the young barmaid. He rolled up the soaking maps as best he could and turned to look at the tavern. It was wrecked. He reached for the pouch at his side, meaning to pay the man what money he could for his trouble. The pouch was gone, he was sure he’d brought it with him. He looked apologetically at the man and promised to return with some. The man merely stared icily back at him. As Anarark left the inn he stared up the swinging sign above the inn, a great red dragon on a green background, and promised to pay the man before the 4th moved out again.

* * *

Vaile leapt silently from roof to roof as she made her way towards the central western wall of the city, known to the inhabitants of the city as Menos, which separated the Merchant’s Quarter from the Noble’s Quarter, stopping only when guards passed on the ground below. She listened to their conversation carefully to pick up any news which was considered unworthy of the common folk. Satisfied that the guards were out of sight, Vaile leapt across the gaps between a few more buildings until the twenty-five foot wall stood before her.

Although the city had not seen an enemy combatant touch its stones in two hundred years the walls were still guarded every hour; however at this particular point of the wall she had an unspoken agreement with an elderly guard. In return for one silver piece he would pretend that his shift guarding the wall had been entirely uneventful.

Vaile’s ascent up the wall was quick, her hands and feet finding handholds that she could have found blindfolded. As she reached the top and gazed over the parapet glad to see that the elderly guard was asleep, leaning on his halberd. Vaile pulled herself on to the wall and smiled. She took a silver coin from her pocket and placed it at the guard’s feet. From this high point on the wall she had a good view of the city. Towards the south she could see a line of torches near the main gate; the 7th were moving out for Lelm as she'd heard. With a quick intake of breath she leapt over the opposite parapet and, after a neat roll, landed in a crouching position on the balcony of a tall manor house in the Noble’s Quarter.

This manor, Vaile knew, belonged to an elderly noble whose family had all moved away. The house was inhabited now by only the old man and his few select servants. Vaile slowly walked through the open balcony door and crouched on one knee again. She removed her hood and lowered her face mask, listening for any evidence of movement. A sharp snort followed by a yawn from a room down the hall made her dart behind a statue but no further sound followed. Satisfied that it was safe, Vaile made her way along the corridor towards the marble staircase that would lead her downstairs. As she reached it and gazed down at the floor below she grinned and, with a small run up, landed on the wooden banister and happily slid down it to the bottom of the stairs. Vaile dismounted early to avoid knocking down a stone sculpture before rolling once again into her usual crouched position. She listened out again before making her way toward the dining room.

Vaile reached the room without incident and pushed open the large door. She was greeted, as she knew she would be, by a long table laden with the unfinished feast of the evening. The rare meats and fruit were untouched by the man who could rarely eat solid food let alone the full roasted boar which sat proudly on the table, apple in mouth. Vaile walked along the table and picked up a bunch of grapes. She sucked two into her mouth before tossing the rest aside. As she reached the head of the table near the window she picked up the Noble’s abandoned plate and began to help herself to whatever caught her eye. She sat back in the Noble’s chair munching a piece of bread, wine in hand, humming to herself. After several minutes of silence, the sound of the heavy metal locker on the Noble’s door sounded throughout the house. Vaile swore, jumped out her seat and slipped into the curtains of the great window behind her. She pulled her hood back over her head and listened.

* * *

“By order of the Emperor you will permit entry to those bearing this message,” said the man, heavily rehearsed in this courtesy the Council saw fit to allow those of noble blood. A less than subtle change to the smashed doors and broken windows they thought more befitting to offer those in the poorer parts of the city. The man paused before continuing. “Any failure to comply-”, he was cut off by the heavy door opening in front of him.

“Apologies, my Lords,” spluttered a half-dressed, tired looking servant. “My master will be down shortly, if you’d like to come through to the dining room”. The men passed him without a word and he shut the door quietly behind them. His forced, welcoming smile was shattered by the cold looks on their faces as he lifted an arm and guided them toward the dining room.

Vaile watched them from the shadows as they entered. The voice, Vaile guessed, belonged to the man who entered first. He wore simple but expensive clothes and was rolling up a scroll; a Council servant of some kind. Vaile’s eyes were more interested however in the other three men. Two of these, who entered after the servant, she identified immediately as members of the Ithayén Guard. These men, dressed head to toe in full black body armour carried no weapons and merely had on the side of their belt a small oil lamp – burning a purple flame. They moved to either side of the door and stood silently as the last man entered. Vaile almost gasped out loud. This man, dressed in fine black hooded-robe with gold embroidery was a Superion; a member of the Council.

The man stepped into the room and gazed around it before turning to face the door way. He removed his black hood to reveal a bald head as Vaile saw the elderly merchant enter.

“My Lord,” said the noble, barely managing a bow. “How may I be of service to the Council?”

“We are here to discuss your trade contracts with various… ill-associated merchants in the outer cities,” said the Superion. The noble opened his mouth to speak but the Superion raised a black gloved finger to silence him. Vaile frowned, it was not usual for a Superion to be directly involved in something as minor as this. Usually they'd just send out the Ithayén Guard to rough them up a bit.

“The Emperor was most displeased to hear of your continued communication with the Venyari traitors even after our previous warnings,” continued the Superion.

“But, My Lord, those contracts were verified by the Council over fifteen years ago, I thought that perhaps-”

“To trade with the enemy of the Emperor is to be an enemy of the Emperor himself,” said the Superion loudly.

“But, My Lord, I can cancel the contract, if you give me just one day I can –” but the noble was cut off. In a flash of light the Superion had somehow sliced the Noble’s head from his shoulders, but the Superion had not moved a muscle. Thankfully the cry from the Noble’s servant covered Vaile’s own audible gasp as the headless body slumped to the ground. A pool of dark blood began to spread quickly across the marble floor beneath the body. The Superion looked down at the corpse with a sneer and stepped over it. With a nod to the two guards he left, followed closely by the Council servant who was looking pale.

The two guards removed a black armoured glove from their right hand and held it towards the oil lamp on their belt. Purple flames burst to life around their hands. They placed these now flaming hands on the table and it caught alight. The flames turned a more natural orange as they were fuelled by the wood of the table. The Noble’s servant gasped in terror and ran from the room. The guards followed as the fire spread around the room, igniting the door frame around them as they stepped through it. Vaile coughed as smoke filled her lungs. She wrenched open the velvet curtains covering the window as they began to smoke. Vaile grasped the window lock but it was sealed tight with years of disuse. She could feel the heat of the fire as the fine fabric of the curtains burnt away before her eyes. With no time to think she took a step back and then leapt through the window in a shatter of glass as a burst of flame exploded from the window. She landed roughly in a rose bush several feet below the window, sharp thorns ripped through her leggings. Disoriented and bleeding she crawled out of the bush.

The dark smoke from the fire had dimmed the light of the moon. Vaile could see the shadow of several people gazing up the burning house. Nobody attempted to rescue those inside.

A piece of broken glass cut deep into her left hand as she crawled away and she gasped in pain. She could feel other cuts along her legs, the warm feel of blood leaving open wounds, these, she knew, would heal in time. A more pressing matter was returning to the safety of the Merchant’s Quarter. The manor was the only safe way Vaile knew of, the others to heavily guarded. She could not risk being found in the city. Wandering at night would at best would gain her a night in the dungeons, perhaps public lashings. But if they found out she’d been trespassing she’d face execution. She bit her lip and pushed herself to her feet, trying to force back the pain.

She managed to make her way past a few houses down the street before collapsing against the wall. Her left hand was bleeding profusely and she blinked sweat out of her eyes. With her right hand she managed to tear a piece of her cloak and wrap it around her left, stemming the flow of blood. Still dizzy with pain she pushed herself back to her feet and looked for somewhere safer to stay, at least until the morning when she could escape the Noble’s Quarter amongst the crowds. She collapsed eventually in small stable behind one of the smaller houses, falling asleep against rough, cobweb ridden, straw.

Hey there! Welcome to YWS--it's good to have you here!

Okay, so I think you've got a good story here; you definitely have me hooked and wanting to read on. However! Your prologue was very dry. To be honest, it read like a textbook, and it doesn't draw the reader in at all. The names, dates, rules, councils, etc., --it's just a very slow start, and none too interesting. People nowadays are looking for that instant gratification; they're looking for something that'll catch their eye and keep them reading to the end. By that time, they've invested enough in the characters and plot to be really hooked. The history of another world isn't that hook they're wanting to read.

My suggestion would be to either a) integrate all those pieces of history into the story, b) cutting it out completely, or c) at least shaving it down--anything to lessen the history and get to the core of your story, the action and the characters that you introduce in the first chapter. Which, by the way, was much better as far as hooks go. You introduced the characters in an easy manner, piqued my curiosity, and whetted my appetite for adventure. Now that's what a reader's looking for!

Now, since you wanted things like grammatical errors to be pointed out, I'm going to go all nitpicky on you--just remember, you asked for it! My comments are in blue, and highlights are in red.

A large embroiled pouch filled with coins landed heavily in front of Hurn as he looked up to see the beautiful young woman slouch into the chair opposite him.

According to the dictionary, the definition of embroiled is: to involve (someone) deeply in an argument, conflict, or difficult situation. Don't quite know how that describes a pouch.

Dressed in simple clothing, a leather jerkin, with a green-hooded cloak wrapped round her shoulders; This should just be a comma. the woman’s feminine features were as well hidden as the steel daggers Hurn knew to be concealed within her garments. Around her waist was a belt on which there was were several pouches; comma filled with useful items.

Then she noticed the stern look on Hurn's face, semicolon! it was not the first time he had tried to convince her to keep the gold.

“Aye, you’re right,” said Hurn, rubbing the rough grey beard on his face, You don't need a comma here, unless you're trying to say that he spoke thoughtfully, in which case you'd switch the wording to be: "said Hurn thoughtfully, rubbing his beard..." thoughtfully.

Hurn’s wife had died three years before and Vaile provided the company the old man dearly needed, whereas he became the father she never had.

I think "while" would be a better replacement; "whereas" is more of a contradictory term, and you're really showing how each complements the others' needs.

Her heartbeat now steadycomma she began to climb.

The cities walled area was almost completely circular; the Star Tower, Ithayén being its central point. Each of the walls was named after a constellation, the cities most outer wall was known as Spheras.

Should be "city's"; you're talking about one city, and using it in a possessive sense. The other spelling is for plural usage, as in "How many cities are in the region?"

General Nain’s men were hardened veterans of the now nine year long campaign against the Venyari province. Unlike the people of Sallow, the Venyari had had time to prepare for the Elnish invasion. In just one year they had gathered and trained an army fifteen thousand strong from tribes of Venya, and under the leadership of the powerful Fire Channeller Queen Unaya they had held back the Elnish advance. The 4th legion had been at the Battle of Forest's Edge two years ago when the Queen had fallen in battle but the Venyari resolve had not faltered. The men and women of Venya had fought harder and eventually pushed the Elnish forces back, in just one week the Queen's daughter Princess Kara had donned her mother's armour and joined the battle. The 4th lost over three hundred men and the city.

Again, really heavy history and explanations, and right now it just doesn't pertain to the story you're trying to tell us; the reader doesn't really care about the battles long ago, they're wanting to know what's happening with Vaile.

“That'll be ten silver,” she said after counting the men at the table. Nain stood and, with an arm wrapped in a heavy iron manica, slapped her across the face. Several of the officers shifted uncomfortably as the girl hit the floor.

Two things. First, what's a manica? Second, wouldn't the girl cry out at being hit and sent down to the floor?

The girl was quivering in fear behind the man, semicolon she was very pretty with long red hair, perhaps seventeen years old, and judging by the blue eyes she shared with the man was probably her You mean "his"? daughter. As Anarark left the inn he glared back at the swinging sign outside; comma emblazoned with a red dragonanother comma should be here and vowed to pay the barman what he could when he had the coin to do so.

The rare meats and fruit were untouched by the man who could rarely eat solid food let alone the full roasted board I didn't know a board had a mouth; must be a boar. which sat proudly on the table; comma apple in mouth.

She sat back in the Noble’s chair munching a piece of Eldish bread; comma wine in hand, humming to herself.

Two of these; comma who entered after the servant, she identified immediately as members of the Ithayén Guard.

Vaile frowned, semicolon it was not usual for a Superion to be directly involved in something as minor as this.

In a flash of light the Superion had somehow sliced the Noble’s head from his shoulders, but the Superion had not moved a muscle.

Ooh, yes! I like this sudden action; took me by surprise.

The dark smoke from the fire had dimmed the light of the moon, to Vaile’s good grace comma for several nobles had left their houses to gaze upon the burning manor.

Helpful neighbors, those.


Okay, so I noticed as I read it through that you seem to mix up the instances when you need to use a semicolon and a comma; I'd suggest reading this great post about those trippy little punctuation marks.

Well, I think I've ripped apart your story as much as I can. Please PM me when you post the next part up, and feel free to shoot me a message if you've got any questions! Keep up the good work.

Okay, I'll admit that I didn't read it. And I'm still going to review.

Now why would I do that? It's obviously not polite.

Thing is, I think very few people would click this link, read the first sentence, and continue reading.

Quite simply, this beginning is boring. And the worst thing you want to do when starting off a story is make it boring. There's a reason we call them "hooks"--the beginning is supposed to capture the reader's attention and never let it go. Opening with a history/politics lesson on your made-up world will not do that. I'm sure it seems very interesting and relevant to you. But it's not to your readers who've never heard about this world and at this point probably care less about it than whatever adventure happens with the characters. More on that later.

I've seen it said recently here (can't remember the exact quote or who said it, sorry) that a story only begins once you run out of backstory. Or something like that. If you begin your story with backstory, it's clear that you're not beginning at the right point. The best place to start a story is when the action kicks off. I notice you started with action in the first chapter, so why not do it from the get-go? Cut out the prologue and history book extract; how important are they to the grand scheme of your plot?

Well, maybe they are. But a reader won't open a book expecting a history lesson on a fantasy world. Not even an avid fantasy reader. Most avid fantasy readers I know care less about fantasy history/politics and more about characters. I know there are some who disagree but honestly, when it comes to storytelling the characters are everything. I get emotionally attached to characters and I want to find out what happens to them, more than I care about plots and certainly more than I care about worlds.

If this information is necessary, let it slip in where it naturally belongs instead of artificially cramming it all into a soporific prologue. The extract from a "book within the universe" is even worse, it's a clear sign of lazy exposition. IMMERSE the reader in your world. Starting off by describing the world and its history only underscores that it's not real. But jumping directly to a main character and using the narrative voice to treat the reader as if they're already a part of this world emphasizes the reality of the world. Solidifies it the way pages of solid description cannot, because we're invited to join the character in navigating and interacting with this world.

It's difficult to explain, but most good fantasy stories will do this.

If you really need to do all this politicking exposition, then do it through dialogue and discussion, and not at the beginning of the book. Start the book off with action. Something to grab the reader's interest.

And a word on prologues--I don't have a problem with prologues in general but I know many people on this site who do. Certainly almost all of us have problems with prologues that seve as nothing but exposition, and for good reason, too.

Good luck with your writing, and I may well read this once you remove that prologue. The first chapter seems promising (in that you start off with action instead of exposition), but it's getting rather late where I am now so I won't get to it immediately. Feel free to PM me if you have questions, or if you want to yell at me for being harsh, that's fine by me too.

Hey both, thanks for the words. Only a couple of friends have read this so it's really nice to get a non-biased review.

Ranger Hawk wrote:To be honest, it read like a textbook, and it doesn't draw the reader in at all. The names, dates, rules, councils, etc., --it's just a very slow start, and none too interesting. People nowadays are looking for that instant gratification; they're looking for something that'll catch their eye and keep them reading to the end. By that time, they've invested enough in the characters and plot to be really hooked. The history of another world isn't that hook they're wanting to read.

Bickazer wrote:Quite simply, this beginning is boring. And the worst thing you want to do when starting off a story is make it boring. There's a reason we call them "hooks"--the beginning is supposed to capture the reader's attention and never let it go. Opening with a history/politics lesson on your made-up world will not do that. I'm sure it seems very interesting and relevant to you. But it's not to your readers who've never heard about this world and at this point probably care less about it than whatever adventure happens with the characters. More on that later.

You both mentioned this so probably best to respond to that part first. First I'll put my reason for putting it in. Basically when I was first putting this story together I noted down all of the places and dates that I had in mind for the story, this at first started off as a little note, then later became more and more detailed. Ultimately I wanted to put it somewhere in the story, but I see now from your comments that the throwing it in at the start was a bad idea. I write what I want to read and often in fantasy novels I find myself scouring through pages to try and find out what is going on where.

I'll definitely take in your advice and try and read the chapter as though I am completely ignorant of the world and integrate the information where its needed. The Book of Ages is meant to be integrated into the story at some point later on, rather than being randomly picked from within the universe, which is why I featured it at the start of each chapter. This perhaps would be better used as an appendum; for those who are interested in the history (as I do have several pages of it written already).

Bickazer wrote:Most avid fantasy readers I know care less about fantasy history/politics and more about characters. I know there are some who disagree but honestly, when it comes to storytelling the characters are everything.

Just wanted to reply to this before I get on to Ranger Hawk's useful nitpicking. I am one of the fantasy readers who, if I am engaged in the story I want to know where it is, which I guess has come through a little too much in my writing. Someone mentions a place? I'll start looking through the book for maps. But as you've both said it's much better to try and explain the world through other means - I'll start editing this chapter right away to do this. Thankyou again.

Ranger Hawk wrote:According to the dictionary, the definition of embroiled is: to involve (someone) deeply in an argument, conflict, or difficult situation. Don't quite know how that describes a pouch.

It was meant to be embroidered I think, thanks for that.

Ranger Hawk wrote:First, what's a manica?

The manica was an armguard used by Roman soldiers. The soldiers of that particular army are meant to be heavily based on the Romans which is why its mentioned. Perhaps 'armguard' would have been a more suitable choice though.

All your other comments are fair, I just wanted to reply to the direct questions. I'll make the edits while I'm rewriting this.

I'm going to leave the prologue up here for the moment so others can understand your comments but I'll move it out of the way. Going to start rewriting straight away.

Edit: Have removed the prologue completely and integrated what I thought was necessary into the chapter, as well as making other edits.

Finally thankyou both for your comments they've been very helpful.

Hey Josh. Welcome to YWS (again). Well I really don't like to read things on here when they're that long but I did. It has potential! The above comments pointed out good spots. The beginning seems good now. I hope to read the next chapter.

Yahowshuwa wrote: she law down to sleep amongst some dusty, cobweb ridden straw.

I think you mean lied. Or something like that.
When it comes to grammar or spelling that's all I could find.

You both mentioned this so probably best to respond to that part first. First I'll put my reason for putting it in. Basically when I was first putting this story together I noted down all of the places and dates that I had in mind for the story, this at first started off as a little note, then later became more and more detailed. Ultimately I wanted to put it somewhere in the story, but I see now from your comments that the throwing it in at the start was a bad idea. I write what I want to read and often in fantasy novels I find myself scouring through pages to try and find out what is going on where.

Well, if it started off as notes, it's best to keep it as notes. Goodness knows that when I invent worlds, I can write pages upon pages of backstory. But the notes are for me alone, just to serve as a reference and to keep my own backstory straight. I estimate that about 60% + of that never, ever ends up in the actual book. Why should it? Most of it isn't relevant to the story I want to tell. Break yourself from this idea that everything you jot down about your story should end up in the finished product. I'm not casting stones because I've done this and I feel it's a temptation that seizes every fantasy writer. Certainly in fantasy setting is more important than it is in literary fiction, and if you're unable to create a setting that's sufficiently fascinating I doubt most people would want to keep reading. But nobody wants to be swamped in irrelevant minutiae. Keep the irrelevant backstory (i.e. that which does not pertain to the main plotline) to the side; the advantage of having well-developed notes and background on your world is that you can slip in the occasional detail/reference and it will make your world feel richer and more fully realized. This goes hand in hand with immersing the reader in the setting.

Notes are not a bad thing. Indeed, if you have tons of detailed notes about your world you will have an easier time protraying it in a consistent manner than you would if you were making everyhting up on the fly. But they are for you, not a reader.

Okay, ramble-rant aside, I'm going to get cracking on the actual review. My style is very nitpicky and I go in depth, so this review will probably be broken in parts.

City of Eln
2471, Superion Age, 4th Day of Eldranhove
13th Year of Council Rule

I question the relevance of this introduction. It didn't bother me but I admit it means absolutely nothing to me and I skimmed over it without caring. For some readers it may well intimidate them away from continuing. The effect isn't immersing, it's alienating. There is a fine line to walk between being too immersive (not infodumping at all) and not immersive enough (too many infodumps), but I think this tilts towards the "too immersive" side.

In general I have a pet peeve against beginning books with a list of dates and occasions. It seems like a lazy way to lay down a setting.

If you like, you could just trim this down to "City of Eln" or "City of Eln, 4th Day of Eldranhove," because I feel that only these pieces of information are, as of now, relevant.

A large embroidered pouch filled with coins landed heavily in front of Hurn as he looked up to see the beautiful young woman slouch into the chair opposite him.

I assume this is a rough draft because this first sentence is very rough draft quality. Not that that's a bad thing--nobody produces perfect prose on their first try.

But this is your story's first sentence so you want something to pull the reader in. Right now, I'd say that this sentence is too rambling and verbose to have much of an effect. I had to read it twice to understand what was going on.

Part of that comes from using general, rather than specific, language, and a preponderance of adjectives. "Large," "embroidered," "heavily," "beautiful." And a few awkward turns of phrase--"as he looked up." And too much happening at once for one sentence. Pouch lands, Hurn looks up, beautiful young woman slouches in a chair. I'm feeling overwhelmed!

Streamline, streamline, streamline. The best prose says the most in the fewest words. Not that I'd advise you try for Hemingway style minimalism; fantasy tends to benefit from a richer style.

I know I'm coming across as harsh and I promise I won't rip into your other sentences so severely, but the first sentence is important. And difficult to write. I still don't think I've ever written a first sentence that satisfies me. If anything you're on the right track, starting with action--but it's too much, too vague, and over-described. Just like a first sentence I'd produce on my first draft, actually.

Skimming further down the scene, I take it that the young woman is the center of the scene, not Hurn. (It may be from Hurn's perspective but she clearly dominates). So why not begin by shifting the focus to her, instead of what Hurn sees of her? It's very easy to fall into the trap of "character saw X action," but it produces tighter prose (and, paradoxically enough, a tighter perspective) if you just say "X" action.

I always feel uncomfortable about rewriting other people's prose, so I won't provide a rewrite so much as a few pointers--start the scene with the young woman performing the action instead of the action being performed as Hurn watches (that will make the sentence much less passive), trim out the unnecessary describes (do we need to know that the bag is large and embroidered, or that the young woman is beautiful) and use a single strong verb instead of a weak verb and an adverb ("plopped" instead of "landed heavily," perhaps?).

That was seven paragraphs for one sentence. Did I mention I tend to ramble? But I don't exaggerate the importance of the first sentence, and of tightening prose in general.

Again, I'm not trying to be mean, because these are problems that afflict every first draft. All of these problems I recognize from my own first drafts and I only really became aware of them after I was called on them (on this very site, too). Once someone makes you aware of them in the first place, it's an easy matter to start noticing them, and fixing them, yourself.

Dressed in simple clothing, a leather jerkin, with a green-hooded cloak wrapped round her shoulders, the woman’s feminine features were as well hidden as the steel daggers Hurn knew to be concealed within her garments.

Second sentence doesn't have to be as eye-popping as the first, but this is a bit of a mess of a sentence and I did a few double takes while reading it. The way it's phrased implies that the woman's "feminine features" are "dressed in simple clothing," while I think you just mean the woman herself. For sentences such as this one, strip away the appositive statement (the one sandwiched between the commas) and read it to see if it makes sense: "Dressed in simple clothing, the woman's feminine features..." Not very sense-making, is it?

"Character knew X" is as bad as "character saw X" or "character felt X." Since this scene is from Hurn's perspective, we know that what the narrative voice describes, he's seeing. So cut out the part about him knowing about the daggers.

A tentative rewrite (at least the way I'd do it), would be something along the lines of, "She was dressed simply, in a leather jerkin and and green hooded cloak that hid her features as well as the daggers concealed within her garments." But even that's not perfect; there's still some residual awkwardness and the parallelism doesn't quite work out.

All of this pertains to simplifying and tightening prose, by the way.

This is excessively nitpicky even for me, but being concise and clear is really essential for good writing. Promise I'll lay off soon, though. A helpful hint is to read your writing out loud, and any part that causes you to stumble is a part that you need to revise.

filled with useful items.

Be specific! I'm curious as to what these "useful items" might be.

said Hurn rubbing the rough grey beard on his face, thoughtfully

Needs to be a comma between "Hurn" and "rubbing," and the "thoughtfully" is unnecessary because rubbing a beard implies that you're thinking, yeah?

I notice you have a problem with adverb abuse; it is quite easy to do and heaven knows I do my fair share. But before using an adverb asking yourself if it's necessary. Use as few of the buggers as possible.

I like the bantering between Vaile and Hurn, it does have a father-daughter feel. I do question if that paragraph about how Vaile came to live with Hurn is necessary. Some elements you might want to keep (such as how long Vaile has lived with Hurn), but others get discussed later anyway (such as Vaile stealing bread), so it seems redundant to state it beforehand. You can easily transfer much of that information into dialogue between the two of them, and some of that isn't all that necessary, such as the part about Hurn's dead wife.

You will encounter the phrase, "show, don't tell" often on this site, and for good reason. It is better to show us Vaile and Hurn's father-daughter relationship through their interactions than it is to tell us that they have a father-daughter relationship.

Ha, Vaile is plucky without being annoying. I'm starting to like her.

Now this is the way you immerse a reader into your world--mentioning things like the Legions and the Legion Quarter without explaining them. It's trusting us to figure out things on our own and gives the world a sort of unique ambience. You can easily believe these are two people in another world chatting about things that are natural to them, rather than artificially bandying about exposition.

Why does Vaile leave? I'm confused.

Some more parts that could be tightened ("Smile of innocence" = "innocent smile," yeah?). I realize that I would like some more detailed description. Not mountains of infodumping, but little details that can really make or break a setting--what kind of drinks are they drinking? How about even just a basic picture of the tavern? You say they're in one but I can't picture it well. Is it wide and airy, close and cramped? Does it stink from constantly being filled with jostling people, or does it smell like food? Or both? I don't want the exact dimensions of the tavern and its entire floor plan, but slipping in a small detail every now and then will anchor it more concretely in the reader's mind.

Also, I realize I don't know whether there's anyone else in the tavern than these two. I assume it isn't and it's after closing hours, but this is a time where I'd appreciate a direct mention.

Vaile took a small thin dagger from her belt, and spun it a few times before returning it to its scabbard. Vaile calmed her breathing and gazed up at the building beside Hurn’s tavern.

You started two sentences with the same word, which makes for some awkward flow.

I take it that Vaile is heading out to steal some more stuff? Would appreciate if that was more clear.

I like the atmosphere in this scene, though. Feels appropriately night-like and mysterious.

The Merchant’s Quarter was one of Eln’s four main sections. The cities walled area was almost completely circular, the Star Tower, Ithayén being its central point. Each of the walls was named after a constellation, the city’s most outer wall was known as Spheras. On the outskirts of the city were several smaller villages and residential areas that had expanded beyond the city’s walls, but these were all abandoned once the Council had blocked travel from the city. At the base of the city walls and through the city’s great sewers were the slums, a network of the poor who were paid no attention by the people of the inner city, unless of course it affected them. On the south west curve of Spheras was a flat section where the two great wooden gates reinforced with plates of steel marked the entrance to the city. On the inside of the wall in the south west of the city was the Merchant’s Quarter and opposite it to the south east, the Legion's Quarter home to the city barrack and some other housing. To the North West lay the Noble’s Quarter and opposite it, to the north east, the derelict Grand Palace, once the home to the Emperor’s of the Alliance. The Crimson Dragon one of the towns many taverns stood along the road which separated the Merchant's and Legion's Quarter. Unlike Hurn's quiet tavern in the Merchant's Quarter this tavern was full of people. It was, mostly unwillingly, playing host to several members of the 4th Legion.

RRRGH NO ARRRRGH

And you were doing so well, too! This is precisely what not to do, even in the most heavily described fantasy story. If we want to see all this we can look at a map, yeah? (I assume you'd draw a map for this story). Right now it's just one huge, solid block of irrelevant information. I read the first sentence, skimmed the rest, and my eyes glazed over and I got absolutely nothing out of it.

Remember, you're writing a narrative, not a textbook. A narrative should be engaging and it should narrate more often than it describes. Right now, there is no narration going on. Just a lot of description. A lot of description that at this point is completely not relevant to the story at hand, unless you've decided to pack a few Chekhov's Guns in here.

Perhaps it will be a major plot point in the future that on the south west curve of Spheras there is a flat section where the gates mark the city's entrance. But surely there must be a more graceful way to include that information, if it is indeed foreshadowing. And I rather suspect that all of this is irrelevant information; it certainly does read as if it came straight from your notes.

And it's /great/ that you have such a detailed image of the city. If anything I envy your ability to describe such an intricate picture, and it's definitely a sign that you've thought this world through. But this belongs in /notes/. Describe your master plan of the city, or draw it, or whatever, and keep it close at hand when writing city scenes, so that you can ensure that everything is where it's supposed to be and you're not randomly adding streets or changing the relative locations of the Quarters. A reference such as this is a great thing to have. It is not great to foist it on the reader and expect them to care. To be honest, most readers won't mind if the city's layout makes no sense so long as they get an engaging story.

As of now, I'd say delete all of this paragraph up until you start talking about the Crimson Dragon, which so happens to be the point at which the background ends and the action begins.

Sorry if I really tore into you with this one; I can tell this world means a lot to you and you've put a great deal of thought into it. Let that shine through in your depiction of the city streets instead of giving us geography lessons. It's another form of "show, don't tell."

Re the rest of the scene--I don't fight Nain that threatening a bad guy. At this point his actions are so cartoonishly evil and over the top. Maybe he was drunk and that's why he was so violent, but he sure seemed sober when he was talking plans with his supposedly drunk soldiers. The evil, corrupt army is such a fantasy cliche; this scene gave me unpleasant flashbacks to Eragon. Please, I'm sure you can write better than Christopher Paolini.

I find it hard to believe that a general would be having drinks with his soldiers, most of whom are probably enlisted grunts. Generals tend not to march at the front lines, you know; it's by and large a desk job. I'd find it more believable if Nain was a Captain or Major or hell, even a Sergeant of some sort. A commissioned or noncom officer who would actually be fighting and would also be in aposition of command.

Hmm, interesting about Anarark missing his coin pouch--I suspect that it was Vaile's doing! I like him, though. Usually the evil army is depicted as filled with mindless mooks and led by a few corrupt generals, so it's nice that you have one who is shown as being a good person but also pragmatic and resigned to his superior officer behaving badly. If you have a volunteer army, most soldiers join for quite noble reasons. It's not hard to imagine Anarark as a soldier who still believes in his ideals, but understands that most of the other soldiers around him don't.

The girl's depiction bothers me; my alarms always ring when female characters are written as passive victims, although I don't think that will be much of a problem in this story because Vaile so far seems quite strong and capable. The random physical description seems like a setup for a romance between her and Anarark, but if I'm wrong that just makes the description...random. Unless she'll be showing up again in a major way.

Okay, that's where I have to stop because I have to go. Hopefully you don't take any of this the wrong way. I don't hate this but I find it more constructive to point out flaws (points that can be improved) rather than what you're already doing right.

PM me if you have any questions, or just want to yell at me for being harsh.

Thanks again for the detailed reply, Bickazer. And there's no need to worry about ripping into the story. If I didn't want honest reviews I wouldn't post something like this on the internet.

Interestingly enough some of the things you mentioned like Nain being a Captain rather than a General were in some of my earlier notes, but they changed recently because of a latter change in the story.

I've got both your reply open and the chapter at the moment (thankyou dual-monitors) and I'm going to start going through it straight away. A lot of your comments have also pointed out the flaws in the few chapters I have written which follow that so I'll take a little more time on those before I consider posting them. It's nice to have this first one as focus point for what to change in the others.

I'll try and get an edited version of this edit up soon.

Thanks again.

Hey Yahowshuwa, I'd like to formally welcome you to YWS! You can call me Stella or any variation thereupon, and I will be your reviewer today.

Firstly, I see your own review count is currently at zero YWS is all about ze giving. The more reviews you do, the more you'll get, and the more you'll get involved in the community, so the more you'll get out of being here, and the more you help other people improve, the more you improve yourself! So, it's all win-win really. So get on it, will you?

Now, review time *rubs hands together in glee*

I. NITPICKS

A large embroidered pouch filled with coins landed heavily in front of Hurn as he looked up to see the beautiful young woman slouch into the chair opposite him.

So let's talk about this as an opening line. It lands in front of him, but he doesn't look at it, as it lands he's looking up to see the girl. I think you could split it into two sentences.

Around her waist was a belt on which there were several pouches, filled with useful items.

Firstly, how does he know this, and secondly, why are you telling us now? Show us later.

“No amount of gold will get you out of this city they way the Council run it, Hurn. You know that,” she added, matter-of-factly.

Okay, so he said that she could pay her way out, which seems an unusual thing to say since generally you can just leave a city. But now he's being forced to take that back, so the whole exchange seems a bit weird- why would he say such a bizarre thing if it wasn't true?

She was an abandoned child; she knew nothing of her parents and had told Hurn she had lived on the streets as long as she could remember. Hurn had been captured by the girl’s smile and took her in. Hurn’s wife had died three years before and Vaile provided the company the old man dearly needed, while he became the father she never had.

Infodump! You can probably just about get away with explaining Vaile's background, but not her and Hurn's relationship. Leave that for later. In fact, reading on, you wouldn't need it at all, they talk about it anyway. Let the dialogue do its job.

Vaile took a small thin dagger from her belt, and spun it a few times before returning it to its scabbard. Vaile calmed her breathing

Don't need to use her name each time.

The Merchant’s Quarter was one of Eln’s four main sections. The cities walled area was almost completely circular, the Star Tower, Ithayén being its central point. Each of the walls was named after a constellation, the city’s most outer wall was known as Spheras. On the outskirts of the city were several smaller villages and residential areas that had expanded beyond the city’s walls, but these were all abandoned once the Council had blocked travel from the city. At the base of the city walls and through the city’s great sewers were the slums, a network of the poor who were paid no attention by the people of the inner city, unless of course it affected them. On the south west curve of Spheras was a flat section where the two great wooden gates reinforced with plates of steel marked the entrance to the city. On the inside of the wall in the south west of the city was the Merchant’s Quarter and opposite it to the south east, the Legion's Quarter home to the city barrack and some other housing. To the North West lay the Noble’s Quarter and opposite it, to the north east, the derelict Grand Palace, once the home to the Emperor’s of the Alliance. The Crimson Dragon one of the towns many taverns stood along the road which separated the Merchant's and Legion's Quarter. Unlike Hurn's quiet tavern in the Merchant's Quarter this tavern was full of people. It was, mostly unwillingly, playing host to several members of the 4th Legion.

Wait... what? Are you expecting us to remember this? I just skim over passages like this, they bore me to death and I'm not going to remember any of the information. If you need to give us an idea of the city, just tell us about the four quarters. Is any of it absolutely necessary to the story? If not, cut it.

promising to return to man with coin tomorrow.

to man?

Vaile removed a loose stone from the wall in front of her revealing a dark hole within which were:

Which were? The hole was? Huh?

They to either side of the door

They too?

Okay.

II. POINT OF VIEW

I've island-hopped in my time, and enjoyed it. My problem here is that I have no idea who your main character is supposed to be. If it's Vaile, who seems to be the focus of the chapter, why haven't you started in her perspective? The problem with hopping is that sometimes you don't give the characters enough stage time. If they're main characters, they need to be developed, in fact, any characters need to be developed. Hurn is as flat as a piece of wood, and the general is just cruel for no apparent reason. And Vaile, as far as I can see, mysterious past, great pickpocketing skills, daredevil behaviour, beauty, is a Sue. If she's not, prove it to us.

But back to the point, which I'm not going to explain well, but WritersDomain wrote an excellent article about, and I think you would really benefit from a read of it.

III. OVERALL

It's not bad, but it could use some work. Try not to infodump, and show rather than tell, and work on developing your characters from the very beginning.

Hope I helped, drop me a note if you need anything!

-Stella x

Stella Thomas wrote:Hey Yahowshuwa, I'd like to formally welcome you to YWS! You can call me Stella or any variation thereupon, and I will be your reviewer today.

Firstly, I see your own review count is currently at zero YWS is all about ze giving. The more reviews you do, the more you'll get, and the more you'll get involved in the community, so the more you'll get out of being here, and the more you help other people improve, the more you improve yourself! So, it's all win-win really. So get on it, will you?

Hi Stella, thanks for the warm welcome. I admit I'd been so busy looking at feedback for my own work that I'd neglected reviewing anyone elses. I've read few a couple of people's posts already but haven't left a review yet, I'll make sure to get on that right away

I'll respond to the parts of your feedback that I haven't changed yet already based on Bickazer's. Thankyou for all of it though.

Stella Thomas wrote:

“No amount of gold will get you out of this city they way the Council run it, Hurn. You know that,” she added, matter-of-factly.

Okay, so he said that she could pay her way out, which seems an unusual thing to say since generally you can just leave a city. But now he's being forced to take that back, so the whole exchange seems a bit weird- why would he say such a bizarre thing if it wasn't true?

This part is meant to put forward that the Council's regime is strict, thus allowing no travel out of the city. However I realise now after reading it through that it doesn't make a lot of sense from a character to character perspective. I've changed it because of this.

Stella Thomas wrote:I. NITPICKS

I've changed all of these so they're correct, thanks. The other 'infodumps' have been removed in my current draft as well.

Stella Thomas wrote:II. POINT OF VIEW
Hurn is as flat as a piece of wood, and the general is just cruel for no apparent reason.

I've tried to fix these two parts as best I can in the third draft.

Stella Thomas wrote: And Vaile, as far as I can see, mysterious past, great pickpocketing skills, daredevil behaviour, beauty, is a Sue. If she's not, prove it to us.

As you guessed Vaile is meant to be the main character. She is however not meant to be a Mary Sue character, which is shown better in next chapter, unfortunately the chapter is quite long as it is. However there is part of the second chapter which I think would perhaps work well at the end of chapter one. I'll have to work on this one. Now that all the little grammar and spelling checks are out of the way I'm going to spend a lot longer on the third draft before posting it.

Stella Thomas wrote:But back to the point, which I'm not going to explain well, but WritersDomain wrote an excellent article about, and I think you would really benefit from a read of it.

Thanks for the link, I'll definitely check it out. There seems to be a lot of helpful articles on this forum which is really good to see. Makes me glad I decided to join.

Stella Thomas wrote:It's not bad, but it could use some work. Try not to infodump, and show rather than tell, and work on developing your characters from the very beginning.

Hope I helped, drop me a note if you need anything!

-Stella x

You definitely helped, thankyou very much. Back to editing for a little bit and then time to read through other's work and leave some reviews I think.

Much better! It was so much easier to read the story and really get into it. As mentioned above, there's nothing wrong with writing all that background and history--as the creator, you should know as much about your world as you can! And if you feel like readers might need that info, well, that's what appendixes are for.

Yahowshuwa wrote:The manica was an armguard used by Roman soldiers. The soldiers of that particular army are meant to be heavily based on the Romans which is why its mentioned. Perhaps 'armguard' would have been a more suitable choice though.

There's nothing wrong with using the term manica, just be sure to explain it to the reader (in a succinct manner!). After all, not everyone's a history buff!

Hey Josh!

I have to admit I was pretty surprised when I learnt you were a writer too. I heard you like David Gemmell, too, who's up there with my favourite fantasy authors. Anyway, it's pretty cool that you've found yourself here. I see you've already received a lot of good reviews already (Bickazer's stands out as speaking a lot of sense), and I don't want to needlessly repeat the same kind of stuff, so I'll keep this sort of brief, and mostly comment on scenes/plot/character.

The opening scene struck me with a number of common fantasy tropes: meeting in a tavern, wearing a leather jerkin, pickpocketing. Not that it's bad to begin with these familiar ideas per se, but it just seemed quite a bland opening that I'd seen many times before. In fact, I'm fairly sure I started a fantasy story in a tavern once. Still, bland openings can be saved by interesting characters. Hurn didn't strike me as particularly worth my attention. I thought you could exaggerate his traits a bit more. Only a suggestion, but maybe Hurn could be a little more lustful towards Vaile. I think playing up the fact that he is obsessed with her looks (which makes Vaile uncomfortable) might increase the tension in the opening scene. Right now it's a bit of a nicey-nice father-daughter chat, devoid of any real conflict (the blood of stories). If you made Hurn a bit more lecherous, a bit more suggestive, it come bring him out from cardboard to reality. Just a suggestion, though, you might have something else planned for Hurn.

As for Vaile, from this opening chapter, she strikes me as the archetype rogue: good-looking, snarky, acrobatic orphan with no ties and no care for money (I mean, the council's stranglehold is so tight she has no need for money? In what society has money not been useful?). She comes across as the classic romantic thief, only doing it because she has to, because of the life she's forced to lead. I've read this character many times and I hope she has something else to her persona, rather than just existing as a Loveable Rogue archetype.

Nitpicks of the first bit:

She was dressed in simple clothing, a leather jerkin, with a green-hooded cloak wrapped round her shoulders.

Perhaps "She was dressed simply" or maybe "She was dressed plainly". I think the comma after clothing would be better as a colon as it's introducing a list of sorts. Although I do question whether this description is useful right now. I understand you're trying to show us something about Vaila, although maybe a different type of introduction would be better. Her hair colour, her stature, her bodyshape, or something. Clothes seems a strange choice of first description.

It was past midnight and the small tavern was empty aside from one man attempted to clean a tankard with an already dirty cloth

Attempted should be attempting.

Needs a comma, or to be two sentences, e.g. "It was past midnight. The small tavern was empty aside from one man attempting to clean a tankard with a dirty cloth."

The man smirked at the pouch as it landed and looked up at her. He smiled at her warmly and poured out a tankard of ale for each of them.

He's smirking then smiling. Since smirk is a facial expression too, I think you could probably limit him to one here. Maybe even trim it to one sentence.

Dialogue-wise, Hurn speaks quite well for a barkeeper. It's quite a lower-class job, after all, in these sort of fantasy settings. So when he first speaks:

“A rich man indeed I’ll be by the time I retire if you continue to treat me so, Vaile,” the man said, picking up the pouch. “You know you could keep some of this for yourself.”

A rich man indeed? Strikes me as kinda formal and well-spoken. Especially to Vaile, since he knows her so well.

Vaile watched Hurn through the dusty window as he collected her empty tankard, put out the candles which had lit the tavern and climbed the wooden stairs to his room above. He would have made set up a bed for her like he always did. But she preferred the night, it was hidden, it was safe. She pulled her hood over her poorly cut, shoulder length brown hair and, taking a small brown cloth from her pocket, covered her mouth so that only her hazel eyes could be seen glinting occasionally in the moonlight. Vaile took a small thin dagger from her belt, and spun it a few times before returning it to its scabbard. She calmed her breathing and gazed up at the building beside Hurn’s tavern. She reached up and gripped the jagged stone that would act as her gateway to a world where darkness would cover her every move, the rooftops of the city of Eln. Her heartbeat now steady, she began to climb.

This bit in Vaile's head struck me as superfluous. It's pretty short and we only get hints about her character. It's also strange have you've changed from the narration in the first scene, which didn't seem to be from either Vaile's or Hurn's POV, into a limited POV. Maybe you could move this and merge it with the Vaile section after the scene in the Crimson Dragon. That would make more sense, I think.

As for the Nain/Crimson Dragon scene, I didn't like it. First up, why does he want another round and then announce he's leaving? I don't mind him being violent to a barmaid. Some people have commented it's cartoonish, but since he's rowdy, it might fit his character. But mostly the scene struck me as kind of irrelevant. If it's an introduction for Captain Nain, then I think you could find a better time to do it. If it's to show the cruelty of the army to the common people, it lacked bite. It's short and it tells rather than shows. You tell us they're drunk and rowdy, rather than showing us through action/dialogue. You tell us it's full of people, rather than describing the clientele. I liked the bit with Anarark noticing his missing pouch, but the scene was far too short for us to learn anything about the characters, really. If you want to keep it, extend it to something more. Perhaps the 4th Legion will talk over some of the politics of the day. Loose talk over drinks. Either way, it's way too limited right now.

The two last scenes were the interesting ones. Things are happening.

Apologies, my Lords” spluttered a half-dressed, tired looking servant. “My master will be down shortly, if you’d like to follow me to the dining room,” he added, gazing around at the four men who stood on the steps before him. The men passed him without a word and he shut the door quietly behind them. His forced, welcoming smile was shattered by the cold looks on their faces as he lifted an arm and guided them toward the dining room.

Missing a comma after Lords. There's a lot of overdescription here. It's one of your early drafts, so it's not of super importance right now, but I'd trim the adjectives to make it shorter.

As for the last scene in general, I liked it. It tantalised us with information, but didn't bore us. We learn some interesting things about the world this is set. I also think you're at home describing action, the paragraph detailing Vaile's escape had good short sentences and kept me interested.

One last thing: you're probably eager to edit your work and make it great now, but don't do it at the expense of not writing the novel itself. Otherwise you'll get drawn into the murky depths of infinite editing and drown in it. Sometimes it's just as good to save these reviews for later, take the advice on board and make sure you don't make the same sort of mistakes as you write, and get the words down on the page. After all, everybody's first draft sucks.

Good luck, cuz!

Hey Jack, thanks for the review, .

Firestarter wrote:The opening scene struck me with a number of common fantasy tropes: meeting in a tavern, wearing a leather jerkin, pickpocketing. Not that it's bad to begin with these familiar ideas per se, but it just seemed quite a bland opening that I'd seen many times before. In fact, I'm fairly sure I started a fantasy story in a tavern once. Still, bland openings can be saved by interesting characters. Hurn didn't strike me as particularly worth my attention. I thought you could exaggerate his traits a bit more. Only a suggestion, but maybe Hurn could be a little more lustful towards Vaile. I think playing up the fact that he is obsessed with her looks (which makes Vaile uncomfortable) might increase the tension in the opening scene. Right now it's a bit of a nicey-nice father-daughter chat, devoid of any real conflict (the blood of stories). If you made Hurn a bit more lecherous, a bit more suggestive, it come bring him out from cardboard to reality. Just a suggestion, though, you might have something else planned for Hurn.

I've had a bit of problem with Hurn, he does appear later on in the second chapter but not again after that. For the moment he acts as necessary recipient for dialogue which is a problem. I was tempted at times to remove it completely, but I like the 'pouch part'. I'll have to look into this.

Firestarter wrote:As for Vaile, from this opening chapter, she strikes me as the archetype rogue: good-looking, snarky, acrobatic orphan with no ties and no care for money (I mean, the council's stranglehold is so tight she has no need for money? In what society has money not been useful?). She comes across as the classic romantic thief, only doing it because she has to, because of the life she's forced to lead. I've read this character many times and I hope she has something else to her persona, rather than just existing as a Loveable Rogue archetype.

This is probably a problem from when I'm reading, I always like the loveable rogue characters - always want them to do well, but as you mention if she only ever does well she'll lose substance. I think I'm going to change up a large part of the opening scene to change this.

Firestarter wrote:Nitpicks of the first bit:

No arguments or comments about most of these, so I'll make some changes when I have the chance here.

Firestarter wrote:

Vaile watched Hurn through the dusty window as he collected her empty tankard, put out the candles which had lit the tavern and climbed the wooden stairs to his room above. He would have made set up a bed for her like he always did. But she preferred the night, it was hidden, it was safe. She pulled her hood over her poorly cut, shoulder length brown hair and, taking a small brown cloth from her pocket, covered her mouth so that only her hazel eyes could be seen glinting occasionally in the moonlight. Vaile took a small thin dagger from her belt, and spun it a few times before returning it to its scabbard. She calmed her breathing and gazed up at the building beside Hurn’s tavern. She reached up and gripped the jagged stone that would act as her gateway to a world where darkness would cover her every move, the rooftops of the city of Eln. Her heartbeat now steady, she began to climb.

This bit in Vaile's head struck me as superfluous. It's pretty short and we only get hints about her character. It's also strange have you've changed from the narration in the first scene, which didn't seem to be from either Vaile's or Hurn's POV, into a limited POV. Maybe you could move this and merge it with the Vaile section after the scene in the Crimson Dragon. That would make more sense, I think.

With the edits to the start this lot will probably change a bit. I think I have a better idea of how to start it.

Firestarter wrote:As for the Nain/Crimson Dragon scene, I didn't like it. First up, why does he want another round and then announce he's leaving? I don't mind him being violent to a barmaid. Some people have commented it's cartoonish, but since he's rowdy, it might fit his character. But mostly the scene struck me as kind of irrelevant. If it's an introduction for Captain Nain, then I think you could find a better time to do it. If it's to show the cruelty of the army to the common people, it lacked bite. It's short and it tells rather than shows. You tell us they're drunk and rowdy, rather than showing us through action/dialogue. You tell us it's full of people, rather than describing the clientele. I liked the bit with Anarark noticing his missing pouch, but the scene was far too short for us to learn anything about the characters, really. If you want to keep it, extend it to something more. Perhaps the 4th Legion will talk over some of the politics of the day. Loose talk over drinks. Either way, it's way too limited right now.

Yeah, this scene is meant to act as an introduction to Captain Nain's character, and in a lesser part to Anarark's character. With the early changes, it was sort of lumped on the end of the introduction of Vaile however, who is meant to be the focus point of the whole chapter. I'll try and expand it a little.

Firestarter wrote:One last thing: you're probably eager to edit your work and make it great now, but don't do it at the expense of not writing the novel itself. Otherwise you'll get drawn into the murky depths of infinite editing and drown in it. Sometimes it's just as good to save these reviews for later, take the advice on board and make sure you don't make the same sort of mistakes as you write, and get the words down on the page. After all, everybody's first draft sucks.

Thankfully I've got about seven chapters written now in their first drafts, and detailed plans of eight more. The only thing I was missing was some people to check them through. I've made a start at chapter eight and I'll probably make a few changes to start of this based on your response before finishing that off.

Thanks again for the help.

Edit: As most appear to be relatively happy with the end of the story I'm mainly working on the first two parts for the 4th Draft. I've tried to develop Nain's character a little more as well as Hurn's (however most of Hurn's character will now be seen in the second chapter as this one is mainly about Vaile)

Edit 2: Fourth draft is now up. Any re-reviews would be appreciated however I'm pretty happy with how this chapter looks now and am going to move on to writing some more and editing chapter two.