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nekros
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 Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:37 am Post subject: A new kind of magician |
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I was thinking about a new story today and was thinking about magicians, I don't really want the typical casts spells from a book or using words or anything like that. I'd like to see a new kind of magician. Where would his power come from? What is his purpose in the world? What kind of power? (Think of other questions if you can) I'm interested in what people can come up with along with myself.  |
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Rubric
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:56 am Post subject: |
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Where did he get his power from? What do others think of him and why? (as a magician not as a character)
Magic from nature, magic from song, magic from the elements. magic from the self (body's natural energy) magic from others (necromancy). Magic from gods (priests). Magic from being (instrinsic to the self)
spoken word, song, prayer, movement/dance, wishing, thought,
I got me lots of magicians and these are some of the ideas I've come up with 
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Myles Wong
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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The only thing I've ever agreed with from anything thats ever been written by Christopher Paolini is that anything you do with magic should take just as much energy as it would without.
Of course, Paolini ballsed that theory up on a regular basis in his book by frequently having his character doing something much easier than he should have - but I hope to be able to say that I've stood by my theory in my stories:
What I believe is that magicians can look at the universe all in one go and change anything which has the potential of happening so that it has happened, but that this takes its toll on the magic-user according to how great the change is and how much energy that would have taken him.
Thus, the greatest magicians are those with big imaginations so that they can easily see the easiest and quickest solution to any problem and adjust the universe accordingly...
And the magicians who aren't so great die extremely painful deaths when they try to train to use these abilities properly, get overwhelmed by looking into the universe and accidentally changing some other small thing, like whether the lining of their lungs are solid or gaseous.
Hope this insight into my macabre mind has helped  |
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Rubric
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:07 am Post subject: |
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Myles, you realise this is the system of magic used in The Colour of Magic by Terry Pratchett?
How about all the things people do with magic that they couldn't do normally? I mean, magic as energy-manipulation, throwing balls of energy etc is all well and good, but there's something timeless about magic; a quality of the unexplained. Magic by it's very nature does the impossible, and this is why I don't like the laws of magic most people come up with.
The best magic, the best laws of magic, will always leave some element unexplained.
For me, all laws of magic are an attempt to explain what is essentially unexplainable. No law will cover all the bases, and there will always be exceptions.
How much energy would it take to turn a man into a frog, without using magic? |
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| *Moved to Writing Tips* |
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Kibble
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:43 am Post subject: |
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I started a story like that a few years back... didn't finish it though. It was called "Song of the Breaking Waves" and based around a sort of parallel universe, accessed through a painting, where songs were semi-tangible and could be collected and carried around in jars. I never really figured out how you'd catch/release/listen to one though, only got up to about page ten. |
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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I always try to make the magic in my worlds a little bit different, and less grand.
My favorite scenario so far is this :
Magicians, have no magic of their own. Instead they merely manipulate magic in nature. Found in air currents, lay-lines etc. As well as magically embedded stones etc.
This throws up an interesting dynamic for a story. There might not be a source of magic where the magician is, so needs to rely on other skills.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Magic in groups is one of my favourites. This eliminates any clichéd "all powerful sorcerer" scenarios. Magicians need to form gangs in order for Magic to have any effect at all.... |
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Snoink
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| I like to make supernatural stories where magic comes from God, and since God is love, then magic would be within love. So you can't actually hurt anyone, or not directly. You have to put your faith into everything. The magicians are the ones who can see beyond the person to touch another's soul with love and be able to effect love. |
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Derek
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:14 am Post subject: |
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If you've ever watched Full Metal Alchemist.
There power of Alchemy works by using the
energy of dead people in another universe parallel to their own.
Thus, them using Alchemy takes lives in the other world to full it.
I love that idea.
Like the mage uses other peoples energy as his own power.
Kinda evil though.
In FMA the main character, and everyone else was unaware of this though. |
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Myles Wong
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Rubric wrote: |
Myles, you realise this is the system of magic used in The Colour of Magic by Terry Pratchett?
...
How much energy would it take to turn a man into a frog, without using magic? |
As an avid Pratchett fan, I beg to differ; Pratchett's theory has unwaveringly been that the Wizard controls the natural magic around him in order to do his bidding. For my theory, the magic comes from within himself.
As for how much energy it would take to turn a man into a frog, people who call themselves magicians do that in our own universe through the use of hypnosis, just convincing them they have been a frog all their lives. As to turning their corporeal forms into a frog, a magician from my universe would adjust the universe so that a frog would be standing where the man (let's call him Jeff to avoid confusion) was a second ago and that Jeff was standing where the frog was previously; additionally, he would use hypnosis and/or cunning deductive reasoning in order to convince the frog that he had been Jeff his entire life, and to convince Jeff, wherever he is now, that he was always a frog. This is cheating, as well as being a collosal drain of energy on the wizard's part, but to convince the audience that he can turn men into frogs, he has done the trick.
I will agree with you, however, that magic - in its core sense - should be left unexplained. If magic was a fully explainable thing, anyone would be able to do it. |
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ankhirke
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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Magic systems in good fantasy tend to be well thought out.
But the most important thing about magic in any setting is consistency. If you set down a magical law as true, it must be true throughout the work, or else not be included as a factor at all.
One thing that comes to mind is Harry Potter. Stunners do the same thing every time. Avadakadavra does the same thing every time. We don't get a lot of theory behind the magic, but because everything is consistent, we get the illusion of a scientific, academic background to magic. The one case in which JK sort of blurs the lines is in the case of resurrections. She states several times that there are NO RESURRECTIONS. Voldemort comes close. The Stone comes close. Harry comes very very very very close - and that's my main caveat. but since she did not outline the factors that determine someone being dead vs. someone being alive, she is able to get away with it.
Elegance is another factor - if you have thirteen types of magic in your world, there better be a good (and simple!) reason why all of them work, and why they're all different. this is one of the many issues I have with the DnD magic system, even up to 4th edition. The best magic systems come from a single assumption about how the physics of the magical world are different from those of the real world.
The main magic system in my work derives from philosophy - it is nothing more than the influence of one mind over another. Therefore, things such as fireballs, telekinesis, cyrokinesis and any manipulation of things without minds are not possible. However, making someone petrified is (since you are basically making their mind send a message to their body to Not Move). Mind reading is similarly possible, and one of the easiest things to accomplish. the only exception to this rule is that on the Shadowplane which exists parallel to the world, flying, fireballs, and magical ice-sculpting are possible. But this is true only because the Shadowplane is a mental construct itself, and therefore everything within it is technically a mind. From this I am able to outline an entire range of things that can and cannot be done with magic, using just a simple premise of mind control.
Another thing to think about with magic is not only how it works, but how it is learned. I never liked the Harry Potter idea of magic being basically a recessive trait, inherited from parents, or even just having it or not having it. To me, that's like saying a person is either born with the ability to learn math, or they aren't. Sure, some people are better at math than others, but overall, everyone has the ability to study it, and someone with less mathematical aptitude who studies a lot can surpass a lazy natural.
And then of course, there are things like LoTR where magic isn't explained at all. It just simply is. But rules still apply - the ring cannot be destroyed by anything other than the fire in which it was forged. And that's that! No matter how strong the wizard, no matter how hot the fire, the only way to destroy it is to take it to mount doom or else be corrupted.
It all depends on the work you're writing, what you need magic to do, and the way the world in the work is different from the world outside of it. Reading good fantasy helps.
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thunder_dude7
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with what others have said.
My advice is to just look around. The magic comes from something, but what? In an untitled novel I have in my head, there are microscopic creatures similar to fairies all around that humans can't see. When they cast a spell, they aren't casting it themselves. Rather, they call on the fairies to cast it for them.
Just look around - inside or outside - and pick out an item. If the idea of magic coming from it isn't completely absurd, you've got a possibility. |
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ankhirke
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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Thunderdude, a comment. And forgive me if I'm being too forward, but I'm a world builder at heart so questions about magic systems come to me naturally.
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| When they cast a spell, they aren't casting it themselves. Rather, they call on the fairies to cast it for them. |
Which begs the question - how are the fairies casting it?
I could see if, when they cast a spell, for instance, levetation, they're in fact asking the fairies around them to lift their weight off the ground. or if they want to freeze a lake, the microscopic fairies are simply connecting the water molecules into a crystaline structure. Basically, I can see anything that nanobots would be able to do.
But you say, instead that the fairies "cast the spell." So How are they casting the spell? What are they doing that humans can't?
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Bickazer
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:46 am Post subject: |
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I was wondering about (mostly the originality of) a magic system I've been thinking of, kinda-sorta-not-really for a fantasy work I may or may not write...
I wanted to make a more organic form of magic than the "codify everything in words/spells" type that seems so prevalent in fantasy. Instead, the way I made my magic is that it's based on physical movements, most prominently dancing--through special, prescribed, ritual dances a magician can summon the power of earth and enact magical spells. Therefore, magic isn't inherited or genetic--it's learned, but it takes years and years of difficult study and intense physical conditioning to learn it, and thus is something most normal people just don't bother learning.
The magic system is also divided into different forms, mostly based on the kinds of dances used and spells cast...it's very nebulous though and I'm uncertain how much a difference there is between each class. "Sorcerers" are more like traditional mages, with billowy robes and staffs, and practice elemental magic; priests/priestesses have a more religious angle but I haven't really thought about what they do (>_>...); "girl-mages" (may need a better name) are all-female (obviously) and practice a form of magic based slightly on rhythmic gymnastics--it's more decorative and focuses on casting illusions and spectacles. My favorite kind because I feel it's the one I thought the most out are the phalanx mages, who are basically soldiers who don't dance so much as chant and stamp and move in formation (this is difficult to describe...). They derive power from numbers and perform all their spells in groups, spells that can summon storms, level cities, etc. I'm also thinking there's a more ritualized, shamanic kind of magic, based more on being in touch with the natural world...
But yeah...I'm not very well-read in fantasy (sorry, but I can't stand high fantasy, making me wonder what I'm doing cooking up a high fantasy magic system in the first place), so I'm mostly wondering if I'm ripping anyone off...and I'm hoping my magic system actually makes sense, or doesn't seem too tacky-weird. >_> Particularly on the divisions between the different kinds of mages...I hope they aren't too arbitrary and are concrete enough. I was mostly envisioning this kind of magic as a visual spectacle above all else; one part that keeps coming in my head, and keeps begging me to write (I promise I will NOT WRITE until the PSAT is over, though) is a scene of a parade of magicians, as well as a scene of drilling phalanx mages. But before I proceed I just wanted some input on this magic system...yeah. O_o |
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