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Samuel Garrison
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 Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 8:39 pm Post subject: Calling all the history buffs... Have a European Question. |
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European history; this is one area where I usually fall flat on my face. To make a long story short, for months I have been doing geneological research on one lineage of my family - Landon. I just discovered a few days ago, my "name" once was Morin de, and my earliest ancestor was Robert Morin de Landon; b. 1239 in Normandy, France. He d. in 1297 in Normandy.
A minor note: The name Landon is English, and I've been able to successfully trace the surname back to its original roots several times - England/UK.
Now here's my question. I seem to remember a war or some indifference with Normandy and England? Are we in the Angelo-Saxon era? And how the *bleep* did an English-born surname first started in France? LOL!
I don't know why but Normandy and England as a whole; I keep thinking the two had a connection with eachother. Some common ground either with conflict or something... Am I right?
I could use any insight with the early 1200 era, Normandy, France and England together (if the two counteries are linked), and any other things related to the period someone can think of. I'm about to go look on Wiki and see what it says on Robert De Morin Landon. |
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Samuel Garrison
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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It seems the Norman Conquest (that's the right name, yes?) played a role along side with England but I had no idea that the outcome supposely was the reason that started the bitterness with France that lasted until the 19th centery?
The Norman Conquest is very new to me. I've only skimmed over it, when looking briefly at the Angelo-Saxon era since another decendant of mine is Robert the Bruce. So, if someone is able, could someone please explain to me the relationship with Normandy and England during this war? What were the aftereffects, and how did they affect both counteries? Did the war really put England on a "higher pedistal" so to speak? Basically a summery of the Norman Conquest would be greatly appreciative so I can further understand my family.
Oh, before I forget, when I mentioned earlier that the Landons were from England, they were all from Hertfordshire after settling in different colonies/towns in mostly New England. I brought the city up because didn't Hertfordshire play a role in the Norman Conquest?
Whew!! I think that's all, lol. Thanks for reading. I hope to hear from some of you.  |
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TL G-Wooster
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| fishr wrote: |
| another decendant of mine is Robert the Bruce. |
Decendant? Ancestor, isnt that?
And the Anglo-Saxon fight with Normandy - I think 1066 was the main time that conflict happened. Harold Godwinson against William the Conquerer (also known as the Bastard.) Is that when you're thinking of? If it is, then I know the outline of what happened.
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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1066 is when William defeated the Anglo-Saxons at the battle of Hastings. Besides completely changing the English language forever, this led to a lot of cultural changes for the new rulers of England.
De Morin was a commune (family) in Germanic territory. That was taken by the French sometime in the early 900's. We share a bit of a common ancestry, I'm pleased to say. The birth of my family came from the same stem as De Morin.
Elgar Adelbert Hornickel was the stem of my family. We came from the forests of the south where my great-great Grandfather was the head logger under Willheim II.
Your earliest traceable ancestor is Robert de Morin. There were many before him.
The most important thing to know is that England (the Anglo-Saxons) were defeated. The Normans took over England and remained that way to this day. The English are predominantly of French origin.
So really, you are a really, really, really distant cousin to me. |
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Except, when you say we're of French origin, that is debatable: the Normans are known as they are because of original invasions from the Norsemen, not just to the British Isles, but through into mainland Europe. These tribes also settled in Northern France, meaning these "French" were really not that French. The English are a mix of a lot of things, not really "predominantly" of any origin. The most likely is Celtish, really, a recent study found 60-70% of people in the British Isles have Celtish origins. |
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Samuel Garrison
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 2:09 am Post subject: |
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Oh wow!
Many thanks for all the help, and there's some really neat information I didn't know. Of course I would say more, but my brain's fried. XD
More to say, soon. (And more questions). I think my brain is revolting... |
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Samuel Garrison
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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I'm awake soley by sugar. XD
| Quote: |
| And the Anglo-Saxon fight with Normandy - I think 1066 was the main time that conflict happened. Harold Godwinson against William the Conquerer (also known as the Bastard.) Is that when you're thinking of? If it is, then I know the outline of what happened. |
Yes, I was looking for an outline on the Norman Conquest. I guess I could have just asked that before?
| Quote: |
| De Morin was a commune (family) in Germanic territory. |
Forgive me if this sounds like a stupid question, but what do you mean by "Germanic territory"?
Haha... Well that's cool that we came from the same blood so to speak.
| Quote: |
| Except, when you say we're of French origin, that is debatable: the Normans are known as they are because of original invasions from the Norsemen, not just to the British Isles, but through into mainland Europe. These tribes also settled in Northern France, meaning these "French" were really not that French. The English are a mix of a lot of things, not really "predominantly" of any origin. The most likely is Celtish, really, a recent study found 60-70% of people in the British Isles have Celtish origins. |
So if these Norsemen weren't of French origins, does that mean I'm not connected to France at all or is it technically? Uh, what do you mean the Norsemen weren't really "French?"
Thank you all again for the help. |
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes, I was looking for an outline on the Norman Conquest. |
You know, you could always read Alice in Wonderland for this - it gives the beginning of it, anyway.
Sources differ as to Harold Godwinson's character in this. If you go by the Bayeux Tapestry (which is biased against the Saxons) Harold is an oath-breaker who didn't fufil his promise to help William get the throne of England after Edward the Confessor died.
Side note: Edward the Confessor built Westminster Abbey!
And here, sources differ again. Some say that Harold willingly promised to help William, others say that he was forced into it, so he wasn't breaking any oath to help, as a forced oath was no oath at all.
Anyway, Harold's brother Tostig uprose against Harold and got allies in the form of Harald Hardrada, a Viking bloke from up north. Hardrada was the one who called his mail shirt "Emma."
So Harold Godwinsson had to march north to Stamford Bridge to fight Tostig and Harald Hardrada. He won that battle, but then he had to march south to meet the Normans at Hastings. Then - kaput!
Sorry, this is all I know, and it's only the outline. I don't know much about the actual battle of Hastings, but it's not proved whether Harold WAS killed with an arrow through his eye or not.
Oh, and before all the battles, after Harold's corination (sp!) Halle's commet appeared in the sky. No one was sure whether that was bad or good.
Harold had three brothers I think: Tostig, Leofwine and another one that I can't remember the name of. Begins with a G. And he had a sister, who his father - Earl Godwin - managed to get married off to King Edward. He loved the lady Edith Swan-Neck (there are difficult variations on that name) but I think he married someone else for political reasons. I think, you might need to check that.
I think that's all I know, sorry, and sorry if you knew all that already.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| fishr wrote: |
| Forgive me if this sounds like a stupid question, but what do you mean by "Germanic territory"? |
Territory occupied by the Germans, I should think. Basically, early European history seems to involve every country invading everyone else, especially Britain! |
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Oh yes, we got our fair share of invasions. Geoffrey was the third brother I believe but he played little part in it.
I think people have pretty much covered the Norman invasion but as for the English being French, it's true that we're closer to celtic origins. Basically, Britain was invaded continously throughout this period. The celtics were there in the beginning of this era (410 to 1066) and and remained when the Romans invaded but under their rule. Then, with the breakdown of their empire, most of the Romans left so the Saxons moved in and England was temporarily three different kingdoms - Mercia, Wessex and Northumbria. All three groups of people fought for control with the Romans in central England, the celtics at the edges and the saxons slowly taking all land owned by the Romans. Even when the vikings and Normans invaded the celtics were still there, continously overlooked because they were mostly farmers, not invading forces.
Sorry if it's all a bit fragmented. I studied it as a child which was a fair few years ago now. |
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Samuel Garrison
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Awesome, thanks guys! I think I'm understanding a little now. I may have more questions though a little later. |
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, most of the animosity between Britain and France was well after that. After William invaded England in 1066 he kept his holdings in France, and so did his sons. Then a woman named Matilda succeeded to the throne and all hell broke loose because her cousin Stephen wanted to be king.
Stephen won because Matilda was ... bossy, basically. After some long wrangling between the families, Stephen died and Matilda's son, Henry II took over. He therefore owned not only England and Normandy, but much of central France and, through his marriage to Eleanor of Aquitaine, most of the south, too. During that time there was a great deal of interaction between the English and French territories. Many of the English nobles were actually nobles from France, because the royal family had an inherent distrust of the English. Most of them couldn't actually speak English, in fact!
It's likely that your name crossed over to England sometime between 1066 and 1203-4, because after that the sons and grandsons lost successively larger portions of land in France until we only held Calais. And we never really got them back.
If you have ANY questions about this period, feel free to bother me, as it's pretty much my specialist subject (and an obsesssion) for me!
Good luck with your family tree. I'm impressed you've traced it back that far. I can only get to 1796.  |
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